The Quick Start Charts Book is still at Lulu and there have been 8 downloads and 50 unique page hits so far. I made a clarification and slight adjustment to Incantations. For one thing, I neglected to assign Incantation Points to the Incantations.
I am rethinking some of the rules, but that book is HotDC as it is now. It is a playable and fun game with enough in it for several Adventures. Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon and Issue 1 of The Hero's Chronicle are next on the agenda.
There could easily be some rule additions through either of the next projects, though I don't know for sure.
I am continuing to rethink Incantations. It started based on magic from the old red book that I used back in the day, but that is changing. I'm not even sure we will have Incantation Degrees for that much longer, but Incantations that require a certain amount of Incantation Points. I'm working to make HotDC rules more unique, while retaining simplicity. I continue to look at this and consider the possibilities.
I have a tentative Character Profession called a Blade Mage. As the name implies, he will be part Warrior and part Mage with some restictions and a tougher challenge in gaining Degrees. This is something that could debut in an issue of The Hero's Chronicle. In the old red book, an Elf fit this bill, but HotDC allows the other races to pursue a Profession.
Half Dragons will get another look, though I'm not sure they will make it into HotDC. I'll just have to see what we come up with.
I am also looking at Dragons and Demi Dragons and their potential ability to use Incantations and Shape Shift. This may come up in an Adventure I'm writing (maybe the next one), so I'm jotting down notes. These abilities aren't intended to be basesd on the color of Dragon or Demi Dragon.
There's a little game called Dungeon Squad that has been all the rage in the other rpg's section of the Dragonsfoot forum. The discussion that has created the buzz in in this section of the forum. The rule book is only six pages long. I'm going to take a closer look at this and perhaps contribute to the community. If I do anything, I'll post it here. I do like this little game, which is why it has been linked in my big links section.
Wednesday, September 26, 2007
Monday, September 24, 2007
HotDC Update
The book is on Lulu as of this writing. Of course, you knew that already, but I'm keeping a link bumped at the top. We've had 42 unique page views and 8 downloads of the pdf at the moment, and this is without any hyping on other forums. When Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon is ready, we will hype things a little more. It's low key for now.
Now, DitDD has had much of its intro typed as of now. I think I have mentioned it has become a 3 level dungeon and that more exist, though they are not going to be described in the Adventure. I have opened up a map file for the dungeon. I also updated the icons to be used on the Three Kings Island map to appear less derivative of other products. Better safe than sorry.
The editorial for The Hero's Chronicle Magazine has been written and most of the book is in early stages of layout. It will be 24 pages.
I have backed off a bit in recent days for family reasons, but it is still my intention to have this Adventure ready for release as soon as possible. It's going to be a fun one too. There is a nice story for role pay being developed, but there will be plenty of hacking opportunities as well.
Anyway, that's your latest update. Stay Tuned for more!
Now, DitDD has had much of its intro typed as of now. I think I have mentioned it has become a 3 level dungeon and that more exist, though they are not going to be described in the Adventure. I have opened up a map file for the dungeon. I also updated the icons to be used on the Three Kings Island map to appear less derivative of other products. Better safe than sorry.
The editorial for The Hero's Chronicle Magazine has been written and most of the book is in early stages of layout. It will be 24 pages.
I have backed off a bit in recent days for family reasons, but it is still my intention to have this Adventure ready for release as soon as possible. It's going to be a fun one too. There is a nice story for role pay being developed, but there will be plenty of hacking opportunities as well.
Anyway, that's your latest update. Stay Tuned for more!
4th Edition or Neverwinter Nights?
Here's the deal. I was in the name draw pool for 4th Edition play testing of D&D. Didn't get picked, and I didn't expect to. I'm not active on their forum very much. I did post on another thread that I may talk about in another post, but anyway...
I like the cover art of the core 4th Edition books, and the way Chris Perkins spoke at Gencon, it sounds like it could be fun. I like how he spoke of a new Basic D&D, but lack of posts backing up what he said at Gencon make me wonder what will come out next year. Should I get my hopes up? I don't plan to. If they do Basic D&D and do it right, I will buy it.
Now, had I been chosen to play test, I had every intention of setting up a game at my local store with some hard core 3.5'ers and seeing how much fun it is. But, as I said, I wasn't chosen.
So, the question of the post must be asked, NWN or 4e? If I can't find a game, I don't see me spending the money on books. I want to find a game, but it's not always easy. That 3.5 game I was in suffered from a controlling DM and lack of hack. I didn't want to be babied. If my character gets whacked, so be it. I think the new version could be fun if I could find a game that would start from first level.
In the absence of that, I gotta tell you. Neverwinter Nights 1 was fun, and it was on my computer. I have expansions yet to play, plus Neverwinter Nights 2. All the complex rules are played out on the screen, and I don't have need of books or a bunch opf reading. So, if I have to choose, NWN is what I choose. It's cheaper in the long run, but I really would like the table experience.
I like the cover art of the core 4th Edition books, and the way Chris Perkins spoke at Gencon, it sounds like it could be fun. I like how he spoke of a new Basic D&D, but lack of posts backing up what he said at Gencon make me wonder what will come out next year. Should I get my hopes up? I don't plan to. If they do Basic D&D and do it right, I will buy it.
Now, had I been chosen to play test, I had every intention of setting up a game at my local store with some hard core 3.5'ers and seeing how much fun it is. But, as I said, I wasn't chosen.
So, the question of the post must be asked, NWN or 4e? If I can't find a game, I don't see me spending the money on books. I want to find a game, but it's not always easy. That 3.5 game I was in suffered from a controlling DM and lack of hack. I didn't want to be babied. If my character gets whacked, so be it. I think the new version could be fun if I could find a game that would start from first level.
In the absence of that, I gotta tell you. Neverwinter Nights 1 was fun, and it was on my computer. I have expansions yet to play, plus Neverwinter Nights 2. All the complex rules are played out on the screen, and I don't have need of books or a bunch opf reading. So, if I have to choose, NWN is what I choose. It's cheaper in the long run, but I really would like the table experience.
A Necromancer Speaks
OSRIC is a topic that that comes up on this blog from time to time, because (A) I like the idea of the First Edition of the game I like being put back into action and (B) I'm concerned that what was done is risky and not particularly legal. It's these concerns that have kept me from commiting to a project compatible with OSRIC's little brother, Labyrinth Lord. Is it legal? That's the question.
To boil it down in a way that OSRIC creators are not allowed to say, the OSRIC document attempts to bring 1st Edition AD&D rules back into play. As long as you follow the OSRIC documents, the makers of said document claim, and print OSRIC Compatible on the cover, you can make and sell legal modules for eager 1st Edition fans looking for them.
I have mentioned in previous posts that some companies, such as Troll Lords, Goodman Games and KenzerCo, have have expressed concerns or have had employees do so. Recently, Necromancer Games has done the same over at Enworld. I'll post his comments here without any responses on my behalf.
His first post of Interest:
Orcus
I guarantee that Necromancer Games will give 4E a huge "first edition injection" David Lee Roth style whether it wants it or not... And we've got a big "first edition". You can see it in our spandex pants.
As for OSRIC, I love the idea but I have huge questions about its legality. Always have. I, for one, would never touch it with a ten foot pole. Or in old school speak, a 10' pole. But I understand the attraction. You're on your own. And that is no criticism of the guys who use it and will probably flame me for saying that. I know they are into it and believe in it and want it to succeed. And I respect that. But I still wouldnt touch it. So anyone who tells you OSRIC is clearly legal is, IMHO, looking at it with biased eyes because they want it to be. If you are going to use it, hire a lawyer.
Frankly, I think there will be a pretty significant niche of publishers who stay 3E and try to keep that segment alive.
We've chosen to embrace 4E, because that is just my philosophy. I started with the boxed set. When Blackmoor and GH came out, I used them. When Eldritch Wizardry came out and DDG, I used them. When the AD&D MM came out, ditto. Same with the PHB and DMG. Same with 2E. Same with 3E. I have always done it and always will. But my heart is firmly in the game experience I had with old school D&D. We want to bring old school goodness to the most current version of the rules. And I have every reason to believe we will be successful.
Clark
Clark PetersonNecromancer
Gameswww.necromancergames.com
In the thread, it isn't the OSRIC people who are asking for clarification, it's a poster going by the handle Valiant. Later, the two main OSRIC authors distance themselves from Valiant. The thread stays civil, and Valiant was friendly about it.
Pressed for reasons why he takes the stance he does, Orcus posted this:
Let me make one thing clear. I have never been asked to, nor have I ever given, legal advice to anyone other than my own company. I have made comments based on decisions I have made that people are free to take how they want. And, for myself, I have concluded the legality of the OSRIC materials is highly questionable. Another attorney could come to a different conclusion. This is a very complex issue.
TLG has NEVER asked me for any opinion on the matter, nor would I counsel them one way or the other. I would say: hire an attorney. I am not licensed in your state and I work for a competing company so there are all sorts of potential legal and ethical confilicts.
If you do want my reasons, I will gladly share them.
1. As stated above, I find the OSRIC to be of dubious legality. It has copyright violation writtten all over it, IMHO.
2. The fact that WotC hasnt acted is proof of absolutely nothing. It may mean that the potatos are too small right now for them to care. If you are hanging your hat on their inaction, that IMHO is a bad bad plan.
3. I dont buy into this "two tiered" approach to try to shield others from potential copyright issues. Granted, I appreciate the creativity of the approach. The OSRIC Compatible thing doesnt fly in my view. See below with my "Napster compatible" analogy.
Those are legal issues I see. Here are some practical/philosophical ones.
1. I dont want to play like that. Necro has had unprecedented access to WotC content. We have always been good caretakers of the content entrusted to us. Clearly, WotC wanted to open up 3E. Also clearly they do not want to open up 1E. So even if it was legal (which I doubt) I wouldnt want to be a part of it. I think the mutual respect that Necro and WotC has would be violated by the "end around" that OSRIC tries to do.
2. You just know it is wrong. Its like Napster. Sure, back in the day before the courts et all said you couldnt just share songs like that, we could at least kid ourselves that it was ok but we all knew we shouldnt be sharing songs for free. Maybe no one has done anything with OSRIC yet, but that doesnt make it any more ok--you are trying to indicate compatibility with a system the publisher has a long history of keeping closed, whether you like it or not. And, by way of analogy, I wouldnt put "Napster compatible" on my products either. You know they dont want 1E open. Heck, that is the whole reason for the d20 logo and OGL and d20 STL and the SRD.
3. Not worth the risk. Hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe WotC doesnt care. But they arent issuing any advisory opinions on the matter and it isnt worht the risk. I dont care if I win or lose the law suit, I dont even want to be named in one. And let me tell you, neither do you. Oh, and as an aside, I take offense to the suggestion that I am "harming the 1E community" by saying this stuff.
Clark
Note: this is not legal advice, it is me explaining my opinion when asked. Do not rely on this. Hire your own attorney.
I'll let these comments stand on their own merits, but the entire thread can be found at Enworld.
To boil it down in a way that OSRIC creators are not allowed to say, the OSRIC document attempts to bring 1st Edition AD&D rules back into play. As long as you follow the OSRIC documents, the makers of said document claim, and print OSRIC Compatible on the cover, you can make and sell legal modules for eager 1st Edition fans looking for them.
I have mentioned in previous posts that some companies, such as Troll Lords, Goodman Games and KenzerCo, have have expressed concerns or have had employees do so. Recently, Necromancer Games has done the same over at Enworld. I'll post his comments here without any responses on my behalf.
His first post of Interest:
Orcus
I guarantee that Necromancer Games will give 4E a huge "first edition injection" David Lee Roth style whether it wants it or not... And we've got a big "first edition". You can see it in our spandex pants.
As for OSRIC, I love the idea but I have huge questions about its legality. Always have. I, for one, would never touch it with a ten foot pole. Or in old school speak, a 10' pole. But I understand the attraction. You're on your own. And that is no criticism of the guys who use it and will probably flame me for saying that. I know they are into it and believe in it and want it to succeed. And I respect that. But I still wouldnt touch it. So anyone who tells you OSRIC is clearly legal is, IMHO, looking at it with biased eyes because they want it to be. If you are going to use it, hire a lawyer.
Frankly, I think there will be a pretty significant niche of publishers who stay 3E and try to keep that segment alive.
We've chosen to embrace 4E, because that is just my philosophy. I started with the boxed set. When Blackmoor and GH came out, I used them. When Eldritch Wizardry came out and DDG, I used them. When the AD&D MM came out, ditto. Same with the PHB and DMG. Same with 2E. Same with 3E. I have always done it and always will. But my heart is firmly in the game experience I had with old school D&D. We want to bring old school goodness to the most current version of the rules. And I have every reason to believe we will be successful.
Clark
Clark PetersonNecromancer
Gameswww.necromancergames.com
In the thread, it isn't the OSRIC people who are asking for clarification, it's a poster going by the handle Valiant. Later, the two main OSRIC authors distance themselves from Valiant. The thread stays civil, and Valiant was friendly about it.
Pressed for reasons why he takes the stance he does, Orcus posted this:
Let me make one thing clear. I have never been asked to, nor have I ever given, legal advice to anyone other than my own company. I have made comments based on decisions I have made that people are free to take how they want. And, for myself, I have concluded the legality of the OSRIC materials is highly questionable. Another attorney could come to a different conclusion. This is a very complex issue.
TLG has NEVER asked me for any opinion on the matter, nor would I counsel them one way or the other. I would say: hire an attorney. I am not licensed in your state and I work for a competing company so there are all sorts of potential legal and ethical confilicts.
If you do want my reasons, I will gladly share them.
1. As stated above, I find the OSRIC to be of dubious legality. It has copyright violation writtten all over it, IMHO.
2. The fact that WotC hasnt acted is proof of absolutely nothing. It may mean that the potatos are too small right now for them to care. If you are hanging your hat on their inaction, that IMHO is a bad bad plan.
3. I dont buy into this "two tiered" approach to try to shield others from potential copyright issues. Granted, I appreciate the creativity of the approach. The OSRIC Compatible thing doesnt fly in my view. See below with my "Napster compatible" analogy.
Those are legal issues I see. Here are some practical/philosophical ones.
1. I dont want to play like that. Necro has had unprecedented access to WotC content. We have always been good caretakers of the content entrusted to us. Clearly, WotC wanted to open up 3E. Also clearly they do not want to open up 1E. So even if it was legal (which I doubt) I wouldnt want to be a part of it. I think the mutual respect that Necro and WotC has would be violated by the "end around" that OSRIC tries to do.
2. You just know it is wrong. Its like Napster. Sure, back in the day before the courts et all said you couldnt just share songs like that, we could at least kid ourselves that it was ok but we all knew we shouldnt be sharing songs for free. Maybe no one has done anything with OSRIC yet, but that doesnt make it any more ok--you are trying to indicate compatibility with a system the publisher has a long history of keeping closed, whether you like it or not. And, by way of analogy, I wouldnt put "Napster compatible" on my products either. You know they dont want 1E open. Heck, that is the whole reason for the d20 logo and OGL and d20 STL and the SRD.
3. Not worth the risk. Hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe WotC doesnt care. But they arent issuing any advisory opinions on the matter and it isnt worht the risk. I dont care if I win or lose the law suit, I dont even want to be named in one. And let me tell you, neither do you. Oh, and as an aside, I take offense to the suggestion that I am "harming the 1E community" by saying this stuff.
Clark
Note: this is not legal advice, it is me explaining my opinion when asked. Do not rely on this. Hire your own attorney.
I'll let these comments stand on their own merits, but the entire thread can be found at Enworld.
Wednesday, September 19, 2007
A Bigger Dwarven Dungeon & Other Notes
It's been kind of hectic here for the last week or so, but I am creating for this project and other stuff. Sometimes it does get a little overwheling and you need to step back and look at things.
The HotDC Quick Start Charts book is up on Lulu and has had seven downloads so far. Not bad considering we haven't really been pusing sales just yet. I have a dungeon map and general ideas for what to do with it in the book, but I want more than that. When the next phase is completed, I will probably push a little harder.
That next phase is Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. This was meant to be a two level dungeon at the start, but it may end up covering three in the release. Once more, rumors are that there are several levels of dungeon below that Dwarven farm!
I can't get too much into it at this time, but a back ground story for Pradius Stoutheart is being developed at this moment, and it ties him in with the bigger campaign picture that is emerging on Three Kings Island!
I think I have a nice dungeon crawl in development with this one, so I'm not rushing it too hard. I want to do it right. There will be role play opportunities here, and the party can emerge as heroes to the town of Dragon Vale after this one. But, there's much more than just this Adventure brewing!
Now, if you use the dungeon and plot line suggested in the HotDC Quick Start Charts book, it actually ties in with this Adventure and the bigger picture. Things are happening that will keep the party occupied as they rise in Degree and become Heroes by title.
So, I'm pretty happy about what's happening. I have opened up the file and begun typing. There's lots to do. I have a lot written that needs to be typed and a lot more to write. I don't know how many pages it will be or when the release date will be. These and other details will emerge in the weeks ahead.
The first issue of The Hero's Chronicle is being prepared as well. I have hand written the Editor's Notes column for it. Need to type it. The first issue will contain posts from this blog about game development. The next two probably will as well. I may have additional stuff in the second issue not typed here first, such as Stupid Things We Did At The Table and notes on Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon. One step at a time though. I want to get the first issue together first. The pdf will be free on Lulu when ready
I am revisiting an old project for release before the year is over. It's not game related, but I mention it because it may take time from HotDC. Also, I am doing some prep work for another project that will hopefully be done in 2008. Not game related, but there's that time issue.
HotDC is still my main project. Realistically, I may not get the HotDC First Edition Rulebook done before the year's end. I could push it, but I like my time with my family and getting out and excesizing. The computer has to go off sometime.
I plan to hand write outlines for two novel ideas I have. One called "he Do Over and the other Playing The Role. I intend to use the 21 Steps as learned from Michael Stackpole to do this. The first is sort of auto biographical, to a point, but it takes a science fiction turn. What if you could talk to your younger self? What would you say?
The second book will look at the early RPG community as it is created and is pure fiction. Some of it may seem like real life, but it's not. One reason I'm saying this is that I don't want people thinking it's about Gary or Dave or anybody. It won't be. It's just a story idea I have.
If anything comes of this after the 21 Steps, I'll probably post about it here.
The HotDC Quick Start Charts book is up on Lulu and has had seven downloads so far. Not bad considering we haven't really been pusing sales just yet. I have a dungeon map and general ideas for what to do with it in the book, but I want more than that. When the next phase is completed, I will probably push a little harder.
That next phase is Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. This was meant to be a two level dungeon at the start, but it may end up covering three in the release. Once more, rumors are that there are several levels of dungeon below that Dwarven farm!
I can't get too much into it at this time, but a back ground story for Pradius Stoutheart is being developed at this moment, and it ties him in with the bigger campaign picture that is emerging on Three Kings Island!
I think I have a nice dungeon crawl in development with this one, so I'm not rushing it too hard. I want to do it right. There will be role play opportunities here, and the party can emerge as heroes to the town of Dragon Vale after this one. But, there's much more than just this Adventure brewing!
Now, if you use the dungeon and plot line suggested in the HotDC Quick Start Charts book, it actually ties in with this Adventure and the bigger picture. Things are happening that will keep the party occupied as they rise in Degree and become Heroes by title.
So, I'm pretty happy about what's happening. I have opened up the file and begun typing. There's lots to do. I have a lot written that needs to be typed and a lot more to write. I don't know how many pages it will be or when the release date will be. These and other details will emerge in the weeks ahead.
The first issue of The Hero's Chronicle is being prepared as well. I have hand written the Editor's Notes column for it. Need to type it. The first issue will contain posts from this blog about game development. The next two probably will as well. I may have additional stuff in the second issue not typed here first, such as Stupid Things We Did At The Table and notes on Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon. One step at a time though. I want to get the first issue together first. The pdf will be free on Lulu when ready
I am revisiting an old project for release before the year is over. It's not game related, but I mention it because it may take time from HotDC. Also, I am doing some prep work for another project that will hopefully be done in 2008. Not game related, but there's that time issue.
HotDC is still my main project. Realistically, I may not get the HotDC First Edition Rulebook done before the year's end. I could push it, but I like my time with my family and getting out and excesizing. The computer has to go off sometime.
I plan to hand write outlines for two novel ideas I have. One called "he Do Over and the other Playing The Role. I intend to use the 21 Steps as learned from Michael Stackpole to do this. The first is sort of auto biographical, to a point, but it takes a science fiction turn. What if you could talk to your younger self? What would you say?
The second book will look at the early RPG community as it is created and is pure fiction. Some of it may seem like real life, but it's not. One reason I'm saying this is that I don't want people thinking it's about Gary or Dave or anybody. It won't be. It's just a story idea I have.
If anything comes of this after the 21 Steps, I'll probably post about it here.
Sunday, September 16, 2007
Into The Random Dungeon
Last night, another test session was held for Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl. By the way, you can get a copy of the pdf for the Basic Charts Edition or order a copy of the book at Lulu. We've had five downloads so far, which is cool considering this blog is the only place we've hyped it at. For this test, a random dungeon was used. This one doesn't have a plot to it that is being considered as HotDC cannon at this time.
Basically, it was a random encounter, 20 room dungeon that allowed me to check random treasure rolls and other stuff. Most of the charts were tested at one point or another. I had to create a chart on the fly for determining what might be in a room, using the rd1 method as described below:
1 Empty
2-5 Creature
6 1 Treasure Chart roll
As you can see, I wanted combat to happen. I wanted to see how much death the party would have to deal with. Only four rooms were empty, and two had unguarded treasure. No party members died, but we had some close calls. Now, I want there to be a chance at death, but it is not my intention to have a boat load of deaths for beginning characters. How did I attempt to deal with it in the rules?
1-If you look at the Creature Charts for 0 Degree, you'll notice that most won't do more than 1-3 points damage per hit, though on some Creatures I have an option for more damage. This means that it will take at least two hits to kill a character at 0 Degree, even a Mage or Rogue.
2-Bandaging is introduced as an option in the game. This means that if a GC gets down to 0 Life Points, they can be stabilized by bandaging them, though there is still a chance at death according to a roll of the dice.
3-Priests get Incantations at 0 Degree, and Band Aid is an option. I know the red book doesn't have that option, but we part ways on a few things.
4-Potion of Healing Touch is on the chart for purchasing. As it turns out, the party had enough change left over to buy two of these.
We'll get to know the party involved in a moment, but let me just say I like the Attack-Defense System for combat. It worked as hoped for this test. The Hero Guide must keep an eye on game balance at all times with this system, but it works. I have another combat system option that may get introduced in the Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon Adventure book.
Anyway, the party was:
Alcoe (al-co-ay) the Elven Applicant Mage
Harlin the Human Applicant Warrior
Marlin the Human Applicant Warrior
Nimble the Dwarven Applicant Rogue
Talwyn the Halfling Applicant Priest
One of the first tests of the party was putting Nimble on the front line with the Warriors and Priest in combat with more than three Creatures. He got smacked early on and reduced to 2 Life Points. After that, it was decided to let him stand back and fire arrows from a safer distance. The Mage had four daggers for throwing and did the same thing. Both scored hits doing that.
This reminds me of another rule option that may get introduced at the back of the first Adventure book. That is, what happens if an arrow or dagger misses the intended target? Could it hit a party member by mistake? I don't want to get too heavy on rules, but this seems like something to consider. I'm looking at introducing this and a few other options in the Adventure book, and they may make the First Edition HotDC Rulebook from there.
Being on the front line meant Harlin & Marlin got hit. On fact, Harlin got hit a couple times in two battles and still lived. Now, this may seem a little easy on the party, but I don't believe it is. You want people to get a feel for things, and that's rather difficult if they are rolling up a new character every five minutes. Believe me, death will happen in this game. It's not safe out there, and lessons will be learned by the fool hearty.
At the end of the dungeon, in the 20th room, I rolled a Creature from 1st Degree and got two gnomes. This was a bigger challenge, and Harlin got smacked again. However, the party lived. I believe you can have 1st Degree Creatures in a 0 Degree Adventure, but too many can prove lethal if you are using the Attack-Defense System.
The unguarded treasure was another opportunity to check out an aspect of this game, Rogue Abilities. Similar to the red book, doing some tasks is not easy for a Rogue, and failure will occur. I tested the trap detect & removal ability, but the Rogue failed on the first check. This led to him being put to sleep. The party did not encounter any Roaming Creatures while he was taking his nap.
The next trap was a poison needle, but he was successful in his Resistance Roll. Choosing a Dwarf as a Rogue was a good option as they have a slightly better tolerance for poison.
I didn't get to check the Repel Living Dead ability for the Priest (I knew I'd forget something), but having two 0 Degree Incantations available for the Priest was very useful. These aren't super powerful Incantations, but two Band Aid Incantations are important for a 0 Degree party.
The Mage was good at slinging a dagger, but not equipped well enough for the front line. This is as it should be. He had four 0 Degree Incantations to start with and used Short Nap to bail the party out on two occasions. He considered Stinging Mist, but backed off as it could have done 1-3 LP's of damage to each party member in the area as well.
At times, combat was a challenge. I rolled 3 Giant Bees in one encounter, but the party managed to take them out before being stung. I was using Creature Reaction Charts to get reactions. A Hero Guide can and will use his judgement as they get comfortable, but I wanted to see what would happen. It was about 50-50, as it should be. The Bees attacked, but victory gave the party healing honey from the Bees.
5 Grunt Goblins, 6 Grunt Orcs (twice), 5 Grunt Orcs and 5 Ratlings were among the bigger battles encountered. Short Nap was only used once, on the goblins. Everybody who stood on the front line took damage, and Harlin and Marlin were both reduced from 6 to 2 Life Points on more than one occasion.
The Priest Band Aid Incantations, a dose of Bee honey and one of the Healing Touch Potions were used, and the party rested twice with posted guards. Roaming Creatures were rolled for three times both nights, but nothing happened.
Treasure. In HotDC, you don't get Adventure (experience) Points for gold. At least, this is the way I want it to be, because with only 10 Degrees, it could go by rather quickly. When treasure was rolled for, it totaled in at about 3,600 gold pieces. Most of it was in silver, but the party walked out with 730 gold a piece and one standard dagger of +1 enchantment.
It might seem a touch high for a 20 room dungeon with 14 rooms of fights, but the chart did it's job. There is a clause in there about awarding in the 100's instead of the 1000's based on Creature count in an encounter.
Plus, early on, there are things to spend that money on.
Better weapons
Better armor
Healing Touch Potions
0 Degree Incantation scrolls
And so on...
As has been pointed out in the book, you don't have to roll for everything anyway. If you think 3,650 in gold and a dagger of +1 is too much for a party of 5 0 Degree adventurers is too much, you can adjust it yourself. It's all in what you want from he game.
The Creatures overcome (not all were killed, but they were overcome) resulted in 111 AP's for each party member, plus 200 a piece for clearing the dungeon as per the book's rules on Quest Completion. An HG would have had several opportunities during the adventure to make notes of individual bonuses as they see fit. I chose not to, but showing mercy when it was begged for, successfully making that first kill, taking the hit for another party member and other deeds might be considered. It depends on what you want from the game.
What I also learned from this is that it will take three Adventures to advance a party from 0 to 1st Degree this way, which is fine with me. The Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon Adventure is being designed to possibly get the party to 1st Degree in just that Adventure, or at least very close.
All in all, I'm liking what we've got so far with the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl Basic Charts Edition, and we will continue to add to it with new Adventures and other good stuff. Stay tuned
Basically, it was a random encounter, 20 room dungeon that allowed me to check random treasure rolls and other stuff. Most of the charts were tested at one point or another. I had to create a chart on the fly for determining what might be in a room, using the rd1 method as described below:
1 Empty
2-5 Creature
6 1 Treasure Chart roll
As you can see, I wanted combat to happen. I wanted to see how much death the party would have to deal with. Only four rooms were empty, and two had unguarded treasure. No party members died, but we had some close calls. Now, I want there to be a chance at death, but it is not my intention to have a boat load of deaths for beginning characters. How did I attempt to deal with it in the rules?
1-If you look at the Creature Charts for 0 Degree, you'll notice that most won't do more than 1-3 points damage per hit, though on some Creatures I have an option for more damage. This means that it will take at least two hits to kill a character at 0 Degree, even a Mage or Rogue.
2-Bandaging is introduced as an option in the game. This means that if a GC gets down to 0 Life Points, they can be stabilized by bandaging them, though there is still a chance at death according to a roll of the dice.
3-Priests get Incantations at 0 Degree, and Band Aid is an option. I know the red book doesn't have that option, but we part ways on a few things.
4-Potion of Healing Touch is on the chart for purchasing. As it turns out, the party had enough change left over to buy two of these.
We'll get to know the party involved in a moment, but let me just say I like the Attack-Defense System for combat. It worked as hoped for this test. The Hero Guide must keep an eye on game balance at all times with this system, but it works. I have another combat system option that may get introduced in the Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon Adventure book.
Anyway, the party was:
Alcoe (al-co-ay) the Elven Applicant Mage
Harlin the Human Applicant Warrior
Marlin the Human Applicant Warrior
Nimble the Dwarven Applicant Rogue
Talwyn the Halfling Applicant Priest
One of the first tests of the party was putting Nimble on the front line with the Warriors and Priest in combat with more than three Creatures. He got smacked early on and reduced to 2 Life Points. After that, it was decided to let him stand back and fire arrows from a safer distance. The Mage had four daggers for throwing and did the same thing. Both scored hits doing that.
This reminds me of another rule option that may get introduced at the back of the first Adventure book. That is, what happens if an arrow or dagger misses the intended target? Could it hit a party member by mistake? I don't want to get too heavy on rules, but this seems like something to consider. I'm looking at introducing this and a few other options in the Adventure book, and they may make the First Edition HotDC Rulebook from there.
Being on the front line meant Harlin & Marlin got hit. On fact, Harlin got hit a couple times in two battles and still lived. Now, this may seem a little easy on the party, but I don't believe it is. You want people to get a feel for things, and that's rather difficult if they are rolling up a new character every five minutes. Believe me, death will happen in this game. It's not safe out there, and lessons will be learned by the fool hearty.
At the end of the dungeon, in the 20th room, I rolled a Creature from 1st Degree and got two gnomes. This was a bigger challenge, and Harlin got smacked again. However, the party lived. I believe you can have 1st Degree Creatures in a 0 Degree Adventure, but too many can prove lethal if you are using the Attack-Defense System.
The unguarded treasure was another opportunity to check out an aspect of this game, Rogue Abilities. Similar to the red book, doing some tasks is not easy for a Rogue, and failure will occur. I tested the trap detect & removal ability, but the Rogue failed on the first check. This led to him being put to sleep. The party did not encounter any Roaming Creatures while he was taking his nap.
The next trap was a poison needle, but he was successful in his Resistance Roll. Choosing a Dwarf as a Rogue was a good option as they have a slightly better tolerance for poison.
I didn't get to check the Repel Living Dead ability for the Priest (I knew I'd forget something), but having two 0 Degree Incantations available for the Priest was very useful. These aren't super powerful Incantations, but two Band Aid Incantations are important for a 0 Degree party.
The Mage was good at slinging a dagger, but not equipped well enough for the front line. This is as it should be. He had four 0 Degree Incantations to start with and used Short Nap to bail the party out on two occasions. He considered Stinging Mist, but backed off as it could have done 1-3 LP's of damage to each party member in the area as well.
At times, combat was a challenge. I rolled 3 Giant Bees in one encounter, but the party managed to take them out before being stung. I was using Creature Reaction Charts to get reactions. A Hero Guide can and will use his judgement as they get comfortable, but I wanted to see what would happen. It was about 50-50, as it should be. The Bees attacked, but victory gave the party healing honey from the Bees.
5 Grunt Goblins, 6 Grunt Orcs (twice), 5 Grunt Orcs and 5 Ratlings were among the bigger battles encountered. Short Nap was only used once, on the goblins. Everybody who stood on the front line took damage, and Harlin and Marlin were both reduced from 6 to 2 Life Points on more than one occasion.
The Priest Band Aid Incantations, a dose of Bee honey and one of the Healing Touch Potions were used, and the party rested twice with posted guards. Roaming Creatures were rolled for three times both nights, but nothing happened.
Treasure. In HotDC, you don't get Adventure (experience) Points for gold. At least, this is the way I want it to be, because with only 10 Degrees, it could go by rather quickly. When treasure was rolled for, it totaled in at about 3,600 gold pieces. Most of it was in silver, but the party walked out with 730 gold a piece and one standard dagger of +1 enchantment.
It might seem a touch high for a 20 room dungeon with 14 rooms of fights, but the chart did it's job. There is a clause in there about awarding in the 100's instead of the 1000's based on Creature count in an encounter.
Plus, early on, there are things to spend that money on.
Better weapons
Better armor
Healing Touch Potions
0 Degree Incantation scrolls
And so on...
As has been pointed out in the book, you don't have to roll for everything anyway. If you think 3,650 in gold and a dagger of +1 is too much for a party of 5 0 Degree adventurers is too much, you can adjust it yourself. It's all in what you want from he game.
The Creatures overcome (not all were killed, but they were overcome) resulted in 111 AP's for each party member, plus 200 a piece for clearing the dungeon as per the book's rules on Quest Completion. An HG would have had several opportunities during the adventure to make notes of individual bonuses as they see fit. I chose not to, but showing mercy when it was begged for, successfully making that first kill, taking the hit for another party member and other deeds might be considered. It depends on what you want from the game.
What I also learned from this is that it will take three Adventures to advance a party from 0 to 1st Degree this way, which is fine with me. The Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon Adventure is being designed to possibly get the party to 1st Degree in just that Adventure, or at least very close.
All in all, I'm liking what we've got so far with the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl Basic Charts Edition, and we will continue to add to it with new Adventures and other good stuff. Stay tuned
Saturday, September 15, 2007
Another Test Game Completed
This one was with five Game Characters, two Warriors, a Rogue, a Mage and a Priest. It was a random 20 room dungeon. A few close calls, but all party members lived. I plan to post more details later. One thing I noticed was that the Basic Charts Edition book was missing #30 on the Magic Item Chart. I have updated that and put it up on Lulu. We're still early in the process, so mistakes will be made. Anyway, when I updated, I noticed there have been five downloads so far. That means that somebody has seen the book.
I have opened the file for Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. I was planning on working on that a little when the test came about. I'm glad that happened as we learned a few things. I'm happy with the way it's going so far. Anyway, more updates to come. Stay tuned.
I have opened the file for Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. I was planning on working on that a little when the test came about. I'm glad that happened as we learned a few things. I'm happy with the way it's going so far. Anyway, more updates to come. Stay tuned.
Monday, September 10, 2007
You Can Now Get HotDC Basic Charts At Lulu
It's finally available. I believe the continuity and the rules as depicted in the book are now set. There may still be spelling or format errors, and those can be corrected.
Please note that this thread will be a good place to discuss questions or comments that need to be addressed, and it will be linked to the right side of the main page for easy access.
At this time, we are offering free pdf downloads of the book, and we encourage you to do that first before ordering a copy of the book.
If you desire a hard copy of the book, we are selling at at Lulu for less than $7.50. We're not making a big profit off of it, because we don't wish to stick it to you on cost, it's still a work in progress and we want to keep it affordable.
The rules needed to play HotDC are in that book, and we believe you can play and have fun with these rules for hours on end.
Stay tuned for coming HotDC Adventures as well as the debut of The Heroes Chronicle pdf magazine.
Remember to have a good look at the free pdf. If you like it, buy a copy of the book. Feel free to leave comments here, but try to be nice. We're doing our best here.
Now, here's the link for the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl: Basic Charts Edition at Lulu:
Here is the Lulu Link http://www.lulu.com/content/1190599
Please note that this thread will be a good place to discuss questions or comments that need to be addressed, and it will be linked to the right side of the main page for easy access.
At this time, we are offering free pdf downloads of the book, and we encourage you to do that first before ordering a copy of the book.
If you desire a hard copy of the book, we are selling at at Lulu for less than $7.50. We're not making a big profit off of it, because we don't wish to stick it to you on cost, it's still a work in progress and we want to keep it affordable.
The rules needed to play HotDC are in that book, and we believe you can play and have fun with these rules for hours on end.
Stay tuned for coming HotDC Adventures as well as the debut of The Heroes Chronicle pdf magazine.
Remember to have a good look at the free pdf. If you like it, buy a copy of the book. Feel free to leave comments here, but try to be nice. We're doing our best here.
Now, here's the link for the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl: Basic Charts Edition at Lulu:
Here is the Lulu Link http://www.lulu.com/content/1190599
Sunday, September 9, 2007
A Quick Update
I have updated the Basic Charts Edition Book. It's still 44 pages, and I think I should be putting it up on Lulu in the next day or two. This book has undergone so many changes, but it's time to release it and get to work on the first Adventure. I wanna take a day or two to go over a few things, but that should be all I need. I will make an announcement when it is finally released.
The Heroes Chronicle Magazine is on the radar now. It won't really take that long to get the first issue out as it will include several posts from this blog about HotDC. It will be a free pdf download when it is released. The first two or three issues will be material that has appeared mainly here and discuss HotDC, old school games, Gencon 2007 and whatever else I can add to it. I'm looking at 20-24 pages per issue at this moment.
Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon is on deck with some more work on First Edition HotDC in the plans. I am considering rule adjustments already, which will make the blog in the days ahead most likely.
The Heroes Chronicle Magazine is on the radar now. It won't really take that long to get the first issue out as it will include several posts from this blog about HotDC. It will be a free pdf download when it is released. The first two or three issues will be material that has appeared mainly here and discuss HotDC, old school games, Gencon 2007 and whatever else I can add to it. I'm looking at 20-24 pages per issue at this moment.
Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon is on deck with some more work on First Edition HotDC in the plans. I am considering rule adjustments already, which will make the blog in the days ahead most likely.
Friday, September 7, 2007
Doing Combat Differently, 0 Degree And Other Stuff
When I started on HotDC, before a Labyrinth Lord was even announced, I made the decision to go another route. The first decision was to lose all but the six sided dice. The second decision was to mimic the old basic game as far as keeping it simple. The combat system has already changed from Armor Level to the Attack Defense System. It has a completely different mechanic from the old basic game. I have decided to look at AL again and possibly propose a rule option in the TKI-1 adventure.
As I said before, I'm just making the two other adjustments with the HotDC Basic Charts Edition, and that's it. The mechanics will be there for people to begin playing. I need to move on to the next phase. I want to get this book out and available to the public.
This is the challenge I've had with HotDC from the first day. There are some good concepts in that old basic game, but I can't just take everything and use it. I need to readjust it. The idea is that it has to be kept simple and easy, or I have defeated the purpose. If you can't jump into HotDC and have a character and a dungeon ready to go within minutes, I haven't done my job right.
The 0 Degree Character and Creature has it's origins from the old Book Of Options my cousin and I did years ago. At the time, I think I was looking for a way a party of 1st level thiefs and magic users could have an adventure without fighters and have a chance at not getting killed every time they entered a dungeon. What I did in the BoO is make a chart of just 1/2 level monsters, creating a few new ones in the process.
In HotDC, there are only going to be 10 Degrees for the Game Characters to advance. That's all I'm planning to cover, because that's all that is needed in this game. Now, somebody may come along with ideas for 10-20 Degrees, but I don't see me creating the Expert or whatever edition of the game. I don't think it's needed. What I did do, back when this was a 7 Degree game, was create a 0 Degree option. Basically, you have to earn 1st Degree. Why should you get it just by starting?
Rules for starting a GC at 0 Degree and Creature Charts for 0 Degree were then created. Part of the fun of the game that my old table forgot about back in the day was earning your first successes. This is why the best armor and weapons aren't going to be affordable at the start. It will be something to earn. Getting that better (but still not magical) sword or armor and earning your 1000th Adventure Point will mean something.
These are things that set the game apart from the old game, while maintaining the spirit of what it was about. I like the old school game feel, and HotDC will retain that as it evolves, or it won't continue. I am looking at EVERY aspect of this game for adjustments that could make it more unique, while keeping it fun and simple. That's the plan, and there is a definite challenge in keeping it different.
I have commented on the Basic Revolution that has begun to stir. What will 4th Edition Basic D&D be? Will there be too many confusing character and combat rules or will they strive for that Moldvay feel? What will Basic C&C be? Basic Hackmaster? I've seen Lejendary Adventures Essentials, and though it comes in a box like the old basic games, it's not that simple. Labyrinth Lord is a faithful interpretation of the old basic game.
While HotDC will be in the spirit of the old game, it will be different. It is my intention to have a post here within the week to announce the release of HotDC Basic Charts Edition. We are starting at Lulu. There will be a free pdf to allow you to check it out. If you like it, a hard copy book will be available for a small fee (less than $10 is the goal). This will be just the first step in Basic Old School Games plan to build Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl.
As I said before, I'm just making the two other adjustments with the HotDC Basic Charts Edition, and that's it. The mechanics will be there for people to begin playing. I need to move on to the next phase. I want to get this book out and available to the public.
This is the challenge I've had with HotDC from the first day. There are some good concepts in that old basic game, but I can't just take everything and use it. I need to readjust it. The idea is that it has to be kept simple and easy, or I have defeated the purpose. If you can't jump into HotDC and have a character and a dungeon ready to go within minutes, I haven't done my job right.
The 0 Degree Character and Creature has it's origins from the old Book Of Options my cousin and I did years ago. At the time, I think I was looking for a way a party of 1st level thiefs and magic users could have an adventure without fighters and have a chance at not getting killed every time they entered a dungeon. What I did in the BoO is make a chart of just 1/2 level monsters, creating a few new ones in the process.
In HotDC, there are only going to be 10 Degrees for the Game Characters to advance. That's all I'm planning to cover, because that's all that is needed in this game. Now, somebody may come along with ideas for 10-20 Degrees, but I don't see me creating the Expert or whatever edition of the game. I don't think it's needed. What I did do, back when this was a 7 Degree game, was create a 0 Degree option. Basically, you have to earn 1st Degree. Why should you get it just by starting?
Rules for starting a GC at 0 Degree and Creature Charts for 0 Degree were then created. Part of the fun of the game that my old table forgot about back in the day was earning your first successes. This is why the best armor and weapons aren't going to be affordable at the start. It will be something to earn. Getting that better (but still not magical) sword or armor and earning your 1000th Adventure Point will mean something.
These are things that set the game apart from the old game, while maintaining the spirit of what it was about. I like the old school game feel, and HotDC will retain that as it evolves, or it won't continue. I am looking at EVERY aspect of this game for adjustments that could make it more unique, while keeping it fun and simple. That's the plan, and there is a definite challenge in keeping it different.
I have commented on the Basic Revolution that has begun to stir. What will 4th Edition Basic D&D be? Will there be too many confusing character and combat rules or will they strive for that Moldvay feel? What will Basic C&C be? Basic Hackmaster? I've seen Lejendary Adventures Essentials, and though it comes in a box like the old basic games, it's not that simple. Labyrinth Lord is a faithful interpretation of the old basic game.
While HotDC will be in the spirit of the old game, it will be different. It is my intention to have a post here within the week to announce the release of HotDC Basic Charts Edition. We are starting at Lulu. There will be a free pdf to allow you to check it out. If you like it, a hard copy book will be available for a small fee (less than $10 is the goal). This will be just the first step in Basic Old School Games plan to build Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl.
Thursday, September 6, 2007
The Name Of Our Little Gaming Effort
I had two choices that seemed interesting to me. They were Basic Old School Games and Die In A Dungeon. In Indy, my friend suggested the latter. Actually, I think he said Guy In A Dungeon, but I heard Die. It had a nice ring to it, and I kept it on the maybe pile.
When I got home, I considered other ideas, but Basic Old School Games was my favorite. I am striving for a basic game with an old school feel. I decided to go with Basic Old School Games TM.
I also had considered changing the name of the game, but I will leave it Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl TM (HotDC TM).
Hero Guide TM as the person who runs the game and Three Kings Island TM are a part of the Trademark of the game as well.
Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl TM Basic Charts Edition is copyright 2007.
More Progress On HotDC
The adjustments I have made on the HotDC Basic Charts Edition have been designed to make it easier to understand. I have redone the intro, defined what is in each section for easier reference and explained the Character Creation process better. It might have been the perfect time to just release things, but I had two more updates I felt needed to be made.
1-The Incantation section was explained a little bit better in terms of what the Resistance Rolls are for and what they do. This should make it easier to understand.
2-I don't have Creature descriptions in this book, just stats and charts. Kinda T&T'ish in that regard, I suppose. But, I felt I needed a page or two to explain terms from the Creature charts.
I want people to be able to play the first 4 Degrees of this game with his book with as few problems as possible. I'm sure there will be questions, and I will have a thread on this blog devoted to answering them.
The main focus of this game is having simple and basic mechanics for easy game play. As the name suggests, it is a game of crawling around in the dungeon, but outdoor encounters can be handled as needed. As the book won't go too far into that area, more experienced Hero Guides will likely be the ones handling those types of adventures.
I do not plan to add any new rules to this book after this update. If spelling or phrasing changes are needed, they will be made. A free pdf will be available anyway. The hard copy is for those who want a copy to use, at a minimal cost.
TKI-1 Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon will offer a few rule options and new Creatures, but that information won't be required to play if you just get the Basic Charts Edition and create your own stuff.
Rules tweaking will probably continue all the way to the release of the First Edition of Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl, as I have already explained in an earlier post.
1-The Incantation section was explained a little bit better in terms of what the Resistance Rolls are for and what they do. This should make it easier to understand.
2-I don't have Creature descriptions in this book, just stats and charts. Kinda T&T'ish in that regard, I suppose. But, I felt I needed a page or two to explain terms from the Creature charts.
I want people to be able to play the first 4 Degrees of this game with his book with as few problems as possible. I'm sure there will be questions, and I will have a thread on this blog devoted to answering them.
The main focus of this game is having simple and basic mechanics for easy game play. As the name suggests, it is a game of crawling around in the dungeon, but outdoor encounters can be handled as needed. As the book won't go too far into that area, more experienced Hero Guides will likely be the ones handling those types of adventures.
I do not plan to add any new rules to this book after this update. If spelling or phrasing changes are needed, they will be made. A free pdf will be available anyway. The hard copy is for those who want a copy to use, at a minimal cost.
TKI-1 Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon will offer a few rule options and new Creatures, but that information won't be required to play if you just get the Basic Charts Edition and create your own stuff.
Rules tweaking will probably continue all the way to the release of the First Edition of Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl, as I have already explained in an earlier post.
Wednesday, September 5, 2007
Just A Few Thoughts On What's Next For HotDC
I have a list of things to do:
1-Get the HotDC Basic Charts Edition up on Lulu within the next week or so. I have a few adjustments to make on the rules, and that's it. Any updates on that afterwards will be grammar related.
2-TKI-1 Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. This is a two level dungeon (at least at the moment) for 0 Degree Game Characters. I will offer a few rule options in the back, a few new Creatures and whatever else I may come up with. Hope to be done by some time in October.
3-The HotDC Rule Book 1st Edition. This will have Creature descriptions, Incantation descriptions and do a more complete job explaining rules. And, yes, rules will probably change between now and then as I make HotDC a more unique experience. I will touch on this in a sequel to my old Challenges Of Doing It Differently post. I'd like to get it done by December, but we'll see.
4-Find an artist or two. I have only clip art at this moment. Flavor text may be used more in the 1st Edition Rule Book and future Adventure Books.
5-Chose a logo and name for this game effort. I actually have, and it will be announced soon.
6-Merka's Maze Of Madness TKI-2 is the working name of the next adventure, I think. It's probably a 1st or 2nd Degree Adventure in which the Game Characters have been teleported into a dungeon and have to fight there way out, or die trying.
7-The Secret City Of Moldayvia is the possible title of TKI-3. This one's a biggie, and that's all I will say at the moment. There may be hints elsewhere on this blog.
8-Get a game started. It's nice to create, but I wanna get a game going. I wanna put HotDC to the test.
9-More interesting posts on the blog. Stupid Things We Did At The Table and other ones. I'd like to do a post about what I'd do if I owned D&D, just for the heck of it.
10-Can't think of anything now, but I know there's something.
At the moment, I'll be going back to the note book and writing down the next ideas for TKI-1 and the Basic Charts Edition. I actually know what I want to to with the rules, but I like to plan things out in the note book ahead of time.
1-Get the HotDC Basic Charts Edition up on Lulu within the next week or so. I have a few adjustments to make on the rules, and that's it. Any updates on that afterwards will be grammar related.
2-TKI-1 Danger in the Dwarven Dungeon. This is a two level dungeon (at least at the moment) for 0 Degree Game Characters. I will offer a few rule options in the back, a few new Creatures and whatever else I may come up with. Hope to be done by some time in October.
3-The HotDC Rule Book 1st Edition. This will have Creature descriptions, Incantation descriptions and do a more complete job explaining rules. And, yes, rules will probably change between now and then as I make HotDC a more unique experience. I will touch on this in a sequel to my old Challenges Of Doing It Differently post. I'd like to get it done by December, but we'll see.
4-Find an artist or two. I have only clip art at this moment. Flavor text may be used more in the 1st Edition Rule Book and future Adventure Books.
5-Chose a logo and name for this game effort. I actually have, and it will be announced soon.
6-Merka's Maze Of Madness TKI-2 is the working name of the next adventure, I think. It's probably a 1st or 2nd Degree Adventure in which the Game Characters have been teleported into a dungeon and have to fight there way out, or die trying.
7-The Secret City Of Moldayvia is the possible title of TKI-3. This one's a biggie, and that's all I will say at the moment. There may be hints elsewhere on this blog.
8-Get a game started. It's nice to create, but I wanna get a game going. I wanna put HotDC to the test.
9-More interesting posts on the blog. Stupid Things We Did At The Table and other ones. I'd like to do a post about what I'd do if I owned D&D, just for the heck of it.
10-Can't think of anything now, but I know there's something.
At the moment, I'll be going back to the note book and writing down the next ideas for TKI-1 and the Basic Charts Edition. I actually know what I want to to with the rules, but I like to plan things out in the note book ahead of time.
OSRIC Discussions From Other Forums
I decided to make a post where OSRIC is discussed. It gets heated, but good points are made on both sides. The reason I do this is not to hurt anything, but to get a better understanding of the arguments. I'd like nothing better than for this to succeed, particularly Labyrinth Lord. My big fear is contributing to LL and helping it grow, only to end up being sued by Wizards and losing ownership to works I create using the rule set.
From Troll Lord Games. This one started about Basic Fantasy, but drifted to OSRIC, where it revealed some negative feelings from that community.
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2929&mforum=trolllordgames
Discussion of OSRIC Legality on the Circvs Maximvs forums. This one was started with a link to Ryan Dancey's thread a Enworld. This one gets rather lively.
http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?s=ad5e85d0644f11e0a9de8e31c4bb475f&t=28156
Dragonsfoot OSRIC Discussion. The question posed is how legal is it. Not a lengthy discussion here, but some good posts.
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18928
OSRIC announced on Dragonsfoot
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18307&highlight=osric
Ryan Dancy Answers OSRIC Questions with his opinion. I believe he had something to do with writing the OGL and D20 documents.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=201334
Goodman Games Board. It has an interesting post by the recent First Edition rules compatible Witch Queen Module Designer.
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2204&highlight=osric
From Troll Lord Games. This one started about Basic Fantasy, but drifted to OSRIC, where it revealed some negative feelings from that community.
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2929&mforum=trolllordgames
Discussion of OSRIC Legality on the Circvs Maximvs forums. This one was started with a link to Ryan Dancey's thread a Enworld. This one gets rather lively.
http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?s=ad5e85d0644f11e0a9de8e31c4bb475f&t=28156
Dragonsfoot OSRIC Discussion. The question posed is how legal is it. Not a lengthy discussion here, but some good posts.
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18928
OSRIC announced on Dragonsfoot
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18307&highlight=osric
Ryan Dancy Answers OSRIC Questions with his opinion. I believe he had something to do with writing the OGL and D20 documents.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=201334
Goodman Games Board. It has an interesting post by the recent First Edition rules compatible Witch Queen Module Designer.
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2204&highlight=osric
Moving Back To The Book
Now that the Gencon Series is done, I'm planning to get back to work on the book, renamed the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl Basic Charts Edition. I've changed the cover and logo, and I will be unveiling the name of my little game making effort soon. It's between two names, and I'll preview them soon.
I also have typed the Stupid Things Done At The Table column. Funny thing is I have already hand written another page that takes me to the wood shed for the stupid things I did. I felt I needed to. So, I'm deciding whether to add that to this column or just create another one for it.
I make no apologies for the way we played back then. We had fun and played for years. HotDC will take things in a different direction, so don't think that this game is going to be like the way the column describes the old days. In fact, in the Basic Charts Book, I address reasons why things should be done a certain way. As it was for me back then, it will be up to the Hero Guide and Gamers to play within the spirit of the rules.
I have two other things I would like to add to the Basic Charts Edition, and then I would very much like to sign off on it and start preparing the main rule book. That means I could have it available on Lulu for free download or printed book (for slight fee) within the week. I already have ideas for rule adjustments, but this has to be the cutoff point. The Basic Charts Book will still give you a good idea of what I'm doing with these rules.
I want to get to work on TKI-1 Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon again and have it ready for an October release, if possible. I've always wanted to do an adventure and see it printed. It's two levels at the moment for Game Characters of 0 Degree.
The HotDC RPOL site is up. I've been considering putting it to use with TKI-1, sort of an informal test session. At any rate, it's time to get back to work on HotDC.
I also have typed the Stupid Things Done At The Table column. Funny thing is I have already hand written another page that takes me to the wood shed for the stupid things I did. I felt I needed to. So, I'm deciding whether to add that to this column or just create another one for it.
I make no apologies for the way we played back then. We had fun and played for years. HotDC will take things in a different direction, so don't think that this game is going to be like the way the column describes the old days. In fact, in the Basic Charts Book, I address reasons why things should be done a certain way. As it was for me back then, it will be up to the Hero Guide and Gamers to play within the spirit of the rules.
I have two other things I would like to add to the Basic Charts Edition, and then I would very much like to sign off on it and start preparing the main rule book. That means I could have it available on Lulu for free download or printed book (for slight fee) within the week. I already have ideas for rule adjustments, but this has to be the cutoff point. The Basic Charts Book will still give you a good idea of what I'm doing with these rules.
I want to get to work on TKI-1 Danger In The Dwarven Dungeon again and have it ready for an October release, if possible. I've always wanted to do an adventure and see it printed. It's two levels at the moment for Game Characters of 0 Degree.
The HotDC RPOL site is up. I've been considering putting it to use with TKI-1, sort of an informal test session. At any rate, it's time to get back to work on HotDC.
Monday, September 3, 2007
Labyrinth Lord Takes Another Step
Goblinoid Games has created a forum for Labyrinth Lord over here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/goblinoidgames.html
Haven't seen it get linked up to their main page, but I'm sure it will. This is a step in encouraging more discussion of the game and where it goes next. I also noticed that Barrataria has noticed LL and linked it to his page. This could be significant as he has written several free modules for old D&D Basic & Expert. Could a LL contribution be in the works?
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/goblinoidgames.html
Haven't seen it get linked up to their main page, but I'm sure it will. This is a step in encouraging more discussion of the game and where it goes next. I also noticed that Barrataria has noticed LL and linked it to his page. This could be significant as he has written several free modules for old D&D Basic & Expert. Could a LL contribution be in the works?
My Take On Where OSRIC Goes Next
There are two threads over at The K&K Alehouse that are of interest to old school gaming. The first, linked directly underneath this paragraph, discusses the morality of the Retro Clone game and was posed by Daniel Proctor of Goblinoid Games. I will discuss that a bit here and quote a few posts.
http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3724
The second link, directly below this paragraph, discusses strategy in marketing OSRIC and derivitive products such as Labyrinth Lord. It is relevent to this post because the two tie together.
http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3693
Daniel Proctor started the morality discussion with this post:
There is a reason I have put these two links in the same thread. What Daniel asks does walk hand in hand with marketing OSRIC and LL in an attempt to make them bigger. I'm only going to quote bits from Daniel's thread here, and I'm not quoting from the other thread. The links will allow you to see the erntire points made. I'm making a point now that the two tie in together.
You wanna sell copies of these retro clones? Go go for it. I wish them luck, and I don't disagree with them doing it. But there is the specter of a lawsuit hanging over their heads. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't happen. Only Wizards of the Coast knows if it will happen. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. The fact that other companies such as Goodman Games, KenzerCo and Troll Lords Games have voiced concerns, doesn't matter one bit.
So the one thread asks what needs to be done to better position OSRIC? You wanna know what I think about that? If you are that confident in the legality, go for it. Make a web page. OSRIC can be the legal document, but you need a better name than that for the game. Daniel has Labyrinth Lord, and the name works, in my opinion. Slap the Advanced Labyrinth Lord name on OSRIC, and go for it.
Make a web page with the game's name. Start a new forum to market LL & ALL. Create a blog. Do a podcast. Start a line of modules for each with the best work submitted. Make it happen. It's the best chance to get noticed and make money. THEN, we'll find out what's legal and what isn't. My guess is that if Wizards is concerned, they aren't saying anything because OSRIC is minor league to them. Proceed at the current level, and there may never be a challenge, step things up if you really wanna know what's legal according to Wizards. But there are concerns, even in the OSRIC community.
PapersAndPaychecks (One of the OSRIC document creators) states:
Controversy is marketing. That's why film producers count reviews in terms of column-inches, not whether they're favourable. I don't care what people say about OSRIC, provided they talk about it as passionately as possible. That's what makes other people curious enough to download it and judge for themselves. Anything worthwhile will have its detractors. We're only in danger when nobody cares any more.Very true there. Controversy does attract interest. They are gonna get good and bad comments, and some people are gonna accuse them of stealing. He knows this, and he's been dealing with it since day one.
Mythmere (One of the OSRIC Crerators) says:
I think there's definitely more to it than just the legal side of these games. I don't believe that just because something's legal it's therefore okay to do. In the case of OSRIC, we've got a system of rules that can't be copyrighted (the legal argument), but those rules were certainly assembled by a person using his own creativity - just like someone produced the rules of checkers and poker (the moral argument).
And further in...
In terms of OSRIC, here are a few points:
1) P&P didn't contact EGG (that's Gary Gygax) during the production of OSRIC because any contact might have caused WotC to think that EGG had been involved in the project - a good attorney could make it look that way. And if EGG had been involved, OSRIC might have caused much more heartburn for WotC. OSRIC would have created a legal risk for EGG if he'd responded with anything other than "no comment." P&P had no desire to cause a legal risk to EGG. Same with Rob Kuntz, Dave Arneson, Frank Mentzer, etc.
2) There's perhaps an outside chance that EGG considers OSRIC to be competition for Lejendary Adventures. While this is a much more valid moral question than an author disliking a retro-clone game in which he no longer has a financial stake, I don't see it. If this were the case, he'd have issues with the fact that he doesn't get paid on sales of the C&C game rules.
3) Troll Lord Games is one of the proponents of the idea that OSRIC is "immoral," and they have clear financial reasons to take that position - OSRIC competes with their C&C game. Whether or not they truly believe the position they've got Peter Bradley stating on their boards - and they might believe it honestly - I tend to ignore "moral" positions coming from people who have a vested interest.
Let's look at the logic of the position that TLG has taken. First, a year ago, they say that OSRIC is illegal because it violates copyright law. Once the pure legal position has been eroded by WotC's silence for a year after the WotC discussions with P&P, suddenly TLG changes course and takes the high road, considering OSRIC to be an "insult" to EGG for using his creativity without paying him.
While that may be true, Troll Lords is using the D20 license as laid out by Wizards, and they are making money. If there were anything illegal behind what they are doing, you can bet a lawsuit would come. Similar arguent for OSRIC you say? Well, that may be true, but it may just be that OSRIC isn't big enough yet. Until Wizards speaks on the subject, we just don't know, and that's part of the problem with getting on board with it. Do you take the risk and put the effort into building it up, only to be sued and have things taken away.
I do have an idea on how to reshape OSRIC and try again, but I'll save that idea for the rainy day if anybody on the project asks me.
You can read this full post in the thread linked above, Mythmere ends with this point:
To be clear on the thread's primary topic, if WotC were paying EGG royalties on 1e module sales from the Paizo pdfs, I would not have been interested in doing OSRIC. It would be a sad situation for us gamers not to have any new modules, but the only solution to my mind would have been the "fan-fiction" approach taken by Dragonsfoot. Also, if TLG pays EGG a royalty on all their d20 sales and C&C sales, then I retract any suggestion of hypocrisy on their part. To the best of my knowledge, they don't pay him a royalty for what others write using the SRD he founded.
It's noble sentiment. If Gary were still getting money for AD&D 1st edition, OSRIC wouldn't exist. Gary may appreciate it, but Wizards? They do own it. Two things to consider.
#1-KenzerCo. had a licensed agreement to create Hackmaster using 1st & 2nd Edition rules, sliced with parody. The agreement ran for seven years and just recently expired. OSRIC's creation overlapped the end of the Hackmaster run under these rules. Did it effect Kenzer's profit margin on the project?
From a moral srandpoint, as Daniel's first post elluded to, was OSRIC taking money from somebody who was using the rules set legally?
2-There are at least two web sites selling old D&D products on pdfs and making money:
Paizo
In other words: OSRIC and efforts like it are an inevitable product of demand not being met in a market. If WotC has a problem with it, the real solution is for WotC to serve the market in a better way than the "bootleggers" are. If WotC decides that they cannot do so in a cost effective way (and to be truthful, I think it's quite likely that WotC would not be able to meet the demand in a cost effective way), "bootlegging" is simply something they are going to have to live with. Sure, they can take legal action against the "bootleggers," but it won't stop different "bootleggers" from continuing to pop up so long as the demand exists.
A fair argument. There's nothing there in the market, so OSRIC is there to take the business. This is likely the biggest argument OSRIC creators used to get things started. It's a good point, but the lefality of ir may still be in question. Ever see the movie Barton Fink? The publisher took the book that he was so proud of and put it on the shelf, never to be sold or read by anybody? It was he publisher's legal right to do that. Well, Wizards owns ALL editions of D&D, and they are theirs to do with as they want. Fact is, if they think 1st Edition sucks and nobody wants it, so why bother? It's their right to leave it on the shelf.
Actually, until Hackmaster's license with Wizards ran out, there was a way to play the game and get new books. And RPGNow and Paizo offer pdf's for sale. Morally speaking, just because you don't like these two options, does that give you the right to create something from an IP that you don't own as a third alternative? THAT'S the question that is unanswered still. Does OSRIC have a right to even exist under Copywrite law and the OGL?
Just because Kenzer has voiced concerns (He told me at Gencon that he would stay away from OSRIC. One of his concerns is that every time certain concerns are voiced to one of the creatos, they say that they are on an island and the rules don't apply to them there.)
Just because Troll Lords has concerns with it
Just because an author of the D20 & OGL documents voiced concerns at enworld recently
It doesn't mean a damn thing. Only Wizards of the Coast may have the voice that matters and issues the challenge that puts an end to OSRIC or is unable to.
THIS is what concerns some people with OSRIC and is why moral discussions are being held on forums by people who are involved. Do you feel confident that this document is indeed legal and can hold up in a court of law? Even if it can, do you have enough money to take it there? WotC and Hasbro does. If you are confident, then phase two of the evolution of OSRIC is ready to be discussed, and a plan for the growth for this community is ready to be made. It will take time, money and work, but there is a market for it. You won't get rich, but a few bucks are possible.
http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3724
The second link, directly below this paragraph, discusses strategy in marketing OSRIC and derivitive products such as Labyrinth Lord. It is relevent to this post because the two tie together.
http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3693
Daniel Proctor started the morality discussion with this post:
We've all seen a lot of buzz on the internet about retro-clone games. People say OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, and GORE are (if not illegal) in bad taste, immoral, rude, or other things in this vein. How do you address this? I have come to think that this perception is one that needs to be dealt with in order for these efforts to flourish.
There is a reason I have put these two links in the same thread. What Daniel asks does walk hand in hand with marketing OSRIC and LL in an attempt to make them bigger. I'm only going to quote bits from Daniel's thread here, and I'm not quoting from the other thread. The links will allow you to see the erntire points made. I'm making a point now that the two tie in together.
You wanna sell copies of these retro clones? Go go for it. I wish them luck, and I don't disagree with them doing it. But there is the specter of a lawsuit hanging over their heads. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't happen. Only Wizards of the Coast knows if it will happen. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. The fact that other companies such as Goodman Games, KenzerCo and Troll Lords Games have voiced concerns, doesn't matter one bit.
So the one thread asks what needs to be done to better position OSRIC? You wanna know what I think about that? If you are that confident in the legality, go for it. Make a web page. OSRIC can be the legal document, but you need a better name than that for the game. Daniel has Labyrinth Lord, and the name works, in my opinion. Slap the Advanced Labyrinth Lord name on OSRIC, and go for it.
Make a web page with the game's name. Start a new forum to market LL & ALL. Create a blog. Do a podcast. Start a line of modules for each with the best work submitted. Make it happen. It's the best chance to get noticed and make money. THEN, we'll find out what's legal and what isn't. My guess is that if Wizards is concerned, they aren't saying anything because OSRIC is minor league to them. Proceed at the current level, and there may never be a challenge, step things up if you really wanna know what's legal according to Wizards. But there are concerns, even in the OSRIC community.
PapersAndPaychecks (One of the OSRIC document creators) states:
Controversy is marketing. That's why film producers count reviews in terms of column-inches, not whether they're favourable. I don't care what people say about OSRIC, provided they talk about it as passionately as possible. That's what makes other people curious enough to download it and judge for themselves. Anything worthwhile will have its detractors. We're only in danger when nobody cares any more.Very true there. Controversy does attract interest. They are gonna get good and bad comments, and some people are gonna accuse them of stealing. He knows this, and he's been dealing with it since day one.
Mythmere (One of the OSRIC Crerators) says:
I think there's definitely more to it than just the legal side of these games. I don't believe that just because something's legal it's therefore okay to do. In the case of OSRIC, we've got a system of rules that can't be copyrighted (the legal argument), but those rules were certainly assembled by a person using his own creativity - just like someone produced the rules of checkers and poker (the moral argument).
And further in...
In terms of OSRIC, here are a few points:
1) P&P didn't contact EGG (that's Gary Gygax) during the production of OSRIC because any contact might have caused WotC to think that EGG had been involved in the project - a good attorney could make it look that way. And if EGG had been involved, OSRIC might have caused much more heartburn for WotC. OSRIC would have created a legal risk for EGG if he'd responded with anything other than "no comment." P&P had no desire to cause a legal risk to EGG. Same with Rob Kuntz, Dave Arneson, Frank Mentzer, etc.
2) There's perhaps an outside chance that EGG considers OSRIC to be competition for Lejendary Adventures. While this is a much more valid moral question than an author disliking a retro-clone game in which he no longer has a financial stake, I don't see it. If this were the case, he'd have issues with the fact that he doesn't get paid on sales of the C&C game rules.
3) Troll Lord Games is one of the proponents of the idea that OSRIC is "immoral," and they have clear financial reasons to take that position - OSRIC competes with their C&C game. Whether or not they truly believe the position they've got Peter Bradley stating on their boards - and they might believe it honestly - I tend to ignore "moral" positions coming from people who have a vested interest.
Let's look at the logic of the position that TLG has taken. First, a year ago, they say that OSRIC is illegal because it violates copyright law. Once the pure legal position has been eroded by WotC's silence for a year after the WotC discussions with P&P, suddenly TLG changes course and takes the high road, considering OSRIC to be an "insult" to EGG for using his creativity without paying him.
.
Um, what is C&C? C&C doesn't use EGG's creativity when the entire introduction to the game says that it does? This particular "moral high ground" they're taking on OSRIC is hypocritical given that TLG uses EGG's original creativity (the d20 SRD is based on D&D - duh) all the way from their d20 products to C&C, and never once considered themselves to be immoral or insulting. They don't see the link between their own activities and the argument they're making.
While that may be true, Troll Lords is using the D20 license as laid out by Wizards, and they are making money. If there were anything illegal behind what they are doing, you can bet a lawsuit would come. Similar arguent for OSRIC you say? Well, that may be true, but it may just be that OSRIC isn't big enough yet. Until Wizards speaks on the subject, we just don't know, and that's part of the problem with getting on board with it. Do you take the risk and put the effort into building it up, only to be sued and have things taken away.
I do have an idea on how to reshape OSRIC and try again, but I'll save that idea for the rainy day if anybody on the project asks me.
You can read this full post in the thread linked above, Mythmere ends with this point:
To be clear on the thread's primary topic, if WotC were paying EGG royalties on 1e module sales from the Paizo pdfs, I would not have been interested in doing OSRIC. It would be a sad situation for us gamers not to have any new modules, but the only solution to my mind would have been the "fan-fiction" approach taken by Dragonsfoot. Also, if TLG pays EGG a royalty on all their d20 sales and C&C sales, then I retract any suggestion of hypocrisy on their part. To the best of my knowledge, they don't pay him a royalty for what others write using the SRD he founded.
It's noble sentiment. If Gary were still getting money for AD&D 1st edition, OSRIC wouldn't exist. Gary may appreciate it, but Wizards? They do own it. Two things to consider.
#1-KenzerCo. had a licensed agreement to create Hackmaster using 1st & 2nd Edition rules, sliced with parody. The agreement ran for seven years and just recently expired. OSRIC's creation overlapped the end of the Hackmaster run under these rules. Did it effect Kenzer's profit margin on the project?
Also, there were OSRIC fans who blasted Hackmaster (and praised OSRIC) for what they did with the rules under agreement with Wizards (with the legally required humor and parody). OSRIC may not have encouraged this talk, but did it's very existance encourage it?
From a moral srandpoint, as Daniel's first post elluded to, was OSRIC taking money from somebody who was using the rules set legally?
2-There are at least two web sites selling old D&D products on pdfs and making money:
RPG Now
Paizo
.
Did OSRIC impede the ability to legally make money on 1st Edition products? Is that moral? They want to allow for new material to be made and sold with OSRIC, that's true. However, there is a plethora of old modules available for sale on those two sites, and if one plays with those long enough, they can learn to design their own mods for their personal campaigns.
Stormcrow says in that thread:
.
I'm not going to take a position on the morality of these projects. However, I don't think it's quite right to say that because someone isn't making a profit on a product means that you're not competing with them when you make a clone. One reason to own a product is to remove it from the market, so people will buy your other product. (Symantec loves to do this.)
.
One can easily see how something like OSRIC could draw customers away from Hasbro's d20 offering. Every declaration by a gamer that shows how he used to play d20 before he discovered "old-school" gaming is a potential gamer lost to Hasbro.A very good point here. Most old schoolers who hate the new game will say they never would buy any of that stuff, even if OSRIC weren't there. That may be true, but this is a point Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro would likely make if it ever came down to a lawsuit.
rogatny posts this comment:
In other words: OSRIC and efforts like it are an inevitable product of demand not being met in a market. If WotC has a problem with it, the real solution is for WotC to serve the market in a better way than the "bootleggers" are. If WotC decides that they cannot do so in a cost effective way (and to be truthful, I think it's quite likely that WotC would not be able to meet the demand in a cost effective way), "bootlegging" is simply something they are going to have to live with. Sure, they can take legal action against the "bootleggers," but it won't stop different "bootleggers" from continuing to pop up so long as the demand exists.
A fair argument. There's nothing there in the market, so OSRIC is there to take the business. This is likely the biggest argument OSRIC creators used to get things started. It's a good point, but the lefality of ir may still be in question. Ever see the movie Barton Fink? The publisher took the book that he was so proud of and put it on the shelf, never to be sold or read by anybody? It was he publisher's legal right to do that. Well, Wizards owns ALL editions of D&D, and they are theirs to do with as they want. Fact is, if they think 1st Edition sucks and nobody wants it, so why bother? It's their right to leave it on the shelf.
Actually, until Hackmaster's license with Wizards ran out, there was a way to play the game and get new books. And RPGNow and Paizo offer pdf's for sale. Morally speaking, just because you don't like these two options, does that give you the right to create something from an IP that you don't own as a third alternative? THAT'S the question that is unanswered still. Does OSRIC have a right to even exist under Copywrite law and the OGL?
Just because Kenzer has voiced concerns (He told me at Gencon that he would stay away from OSRIC. One of his concerns is that every time certain concerns are voiced to one of the creatos, they say that they are on an island and the rules don't apply to them there.)
Just because Troll Lords has concerns with it
Just because people at Goodman Games have voiced concerns
Just because an author of the D20 & OGL documents voiced concerns at enworld recently
It doesn't mean a damn thing. Only Wizards of the Coast may have the voice that matters and issues the challenge that puts an end to OSRIC or is unable to.
THIS is what concerns some people with OSRIC and is why moral discussions are being held on forums by people who are involved. Do you feel confident that this document is indeed legal and can hold up in a court of law? Even if it can, do you have enough money to take it there? WotC and Hasbro does. If you are confident, then phase two of the evolution of OSRIC is ready to be discussed, and a plan for the growth for this community is ready to be made. It will take time, money and work, but there is a market for it. You won't get rich, but a few bucks are possible.
Otherwise, we'll just be sitting here five years from now having these same tired arguments and getting nowhere.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
