I want to introduce you to one of the original Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl. His name is Brannigan, and he's an Applicant (0 Degree) Human Warrior. He was one of four adventurers who set out into the dungeon located underneath the Warrior Training School to retrieve a valuable emerald for the mayor of the city. Only two came back. At some point soon (I hope), Brannigan, fellow survivor Sylvia and four others will adventure again in what may become the first official Dungeon Adventure for HotDC.
Background: When HotDC was first tested, it was even more bare bones than it is now. Several rules have been written and others rewritten. New Safety Throw, Combat and Character Movement rules will be in effect next time, and Brannigan and Sylvia's stats had to be adjusted accordingly.
The big change is combat. When I started creating HotDC, using a six sided dice system, I adjusted the combat system from that old red book to work with three six sided dice. It worked okay as it should. In the end, I felt the Armor Level System was too similar to the Armor Class System, and I did not want that. Back to the drawing board.
In that first session, Brannigan took a beating. He was taken out by a Kobold Grunt at the start. After being bandaged and secured in a room, the group continued and found Giant Bees. I believe it was the Priestess Andrea who bravely went to the hive, scooped some of that Bee Honey and brought it back to Brannigan. It's curing properties revived Brannigan, but he was stung to death when they returned to the bees, dying from sting and not poison. More honey saved him.
A Quick Thought: This is a concern of mine. Death will occur often early in HotDC, just as it did in that old game many of us knew and loved. You don't want to make things too easy, but you don't want to make them too hard either. Ah, balance, sweet balance. THIS is the challenge of creating rules for this game. Back to Brannigan...
Name: Brannigan
The name comes from Futurama and Captain Zap Brannigan, in case you were wondering.
Race: Human --- Profession: Warrior
In HotDC, the rules allow for any race to be any profession, but NO multi profession characters. This is another break away from the old red book, and there will be plenty more. The idea is to create a similar feel of easy understandability, but not to copy. Let others do that.
Degree: 0 --- Title: Applicant --- Adventure Points: 323
I love the fact that HotDC starts a character at 0 Degree. The rules will allow the more traditional 1st Degree start, but why not start at 0? What have you earned yet? As Basic HotDC only goes to 10th Degree, that gives you more to shoot for in the long run. At 1000 Adventure Points, you become 1st Degree, or start at 0 AP's and 1st Degree if you want, but you don't get to 2nd Degree until 2000 AP's either way. There are still advantages at starting at 1st Degree, but there will be perks for starting 0 Degree too, as explained in the HotDC Basic Rulebook.
Might: 12
This gives him a +2 addition on attacks. When you roll up stats, you get three six sided dice. The rules allow that had there been three 6's, Brannigan could have had a 13 Might and a +3 Bonus. I expect that to be rare, but it will happen from time to time on any of the stats.
Cunning: 9
That's about average, but that's all you need from a Warrior.
Agility: 11 This is a good score and gives Brannigan a +2 on his defense against attacks.
Note: The HotDC rule book will offer a few options on the skills that aren't listed as official rules, but the Hero Guide in your group may want to use them. This includes two additional skills. As the testing is being done without those rules, I'll leave it to the Basic HotDC Rulebook for further explaination there.
Attack Strength: 9 --- Defense Strength: 8
This system is similar to the Fighting Fantasy System, but more advanced. I didn't realize the similarity until after I started working on it, but it is different nonetheless. Every Character has a base AS and DS score. Every time they gain a Degree, their base AS and DS scores go up. What weapons they use will efffect AS and what armor is used effects DS. Might and Agility scores also effect AS and DS.In HotDC, Game Characters have base AS and DS scores, while the Creatures will have a base Combat Strength score that acts as an AS or DS depending on the situation. Essentially, you put your AS score up against the CS and there is a bonus or a penalty to your roll depending on how the scores compare. Then, roll two six sided dice to determine if a hit is scored. If it is, you roll for damage depending on what weapon is equiped. To determine if a Creature hits, you do the same with with it's CS and your DS scores.This system has already been reworked several times, and I haven't even run a test on it yet. We are preparing to though. It may get reworked again. Game balance is important to me. What I like about the Attack Defense System is that it allows the Hero Guide to adjust as he needs to, and you can take lower Degree Creatures and make them tougher or vise versa to shake things up a bit.As Brannigan and the other Characters have their scores set, I hope to get another test session together soon. Life Points: 6At 0 Degree, you automatically get half your maximum Life Points, rather than rolling for them. When you earn your 1st Degree, you get the other half. This is one advantage to starting 0 Degree as you have to roll otherwise and may not have maximum Life Points at 1st Degree. The more Life Points you have, of course, the better the chances at survival.
Weight Carried: Not Calculated --- Movement: Not Calculated
There are rules in place for this, but Brannigan's totals haven't been calculated yet. Personally, I'm not a big fan of this rule, but it is a realistic rule and is needed for the Board Game Rules that I intend to have in the Basic HotDC Rulebook.
Safety Throws
Magic & Incantations: 16
Elemental Attacks (Fire, Cold, etc.): 15
Paralize or Petrify: 14
Poison: 12
The HotDC Safety Throw System has been made to differ from the old red book. You will roll to see if your chances improve in all four categories at each Degree. You will roll three dice to make a save, and if your number equals or beats your number, you make it.
Money: 705 Gold Pieces
Brannigan and Sylvia got a bigger share of the reward from their first Adventure as the other two died. In HotDC, there will be plenty of things to do with your money. In the old game, it seemed like we had a lot of money, but nothing to do with it. Well, in HotDC, there is better equipment to buy, and things like Magic Incantation Scrolls and Healing Potions will be available at a price. Given the chances of death, you may want to get those potions from your local Mage in town when you can. You can bet Brannigan will.
Equipment
Enchanted (+1) Standard Sword
Probably too good a weapon for so early in the camapain (1 Adventure so far). I will have a post on the dangers of Monty Haul Experience in the future. Swords and most weapons come in two or three varieties in HotDC. The higher the variety, the stronger, but more expensive. This effects game balance, so I am still studying it.
Chain Mail Armor
The old red book game made having the bast non magical armor at the beginning easy. This is something I wish to change as it makes things more challenging.
Shield Bow (20 Arrows)
Rations 2
Flasks Water
3 Torches
1 Flask Oil
Tinder Box & Flint
50 Foot Rope
2 Bandage Kits
Potion Healing
Back Pack
Bag
That's Brannigan. He is the highest ranking Warrior of the group, but there is a yet to be named Dwarven Warrior joining the ranks. This offers the most insight to Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl that I have offered so far. Some of the things mentioned here will probably be changed again. Just when I think I have something figured out, something must be changed or I have another idea. Ah, the joys of the creation process. Can't wait until the day I have the printed book in my hands, though I'm not sure when that will be.
Tuesday, May 29, 2007
HotDC Character Sheet And A Note
I have finished up a Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl Character Sheet. I plan to redo it a bit and make some adjustments, which is why I haven't made it available yet. Some time in the not too distant future I hope to make a link for a download of it.
I am considering creating a game over at Role Play Online for HotDC. If this happens, the link will be in the links section here.
As a note on HotDC, I intend to post more about game mechanics in the future. This means things about the basic rules of this game will become available. The reason I will do this is to share more about the thought process of this game. It also means secrets to the game will be shared. I've thought about that, but really, if somebody wants any of this stuff that badly, then I suppose nothing will stop them from taking it.
I ask that you do not take any content specific to this game without permission. Many hours have already gone into making this a unique game, and many more will follow. Rules explained here will probably change, as they already have. HotDC will be available for sale when it's done, but I don't expect to get rich or make that much money on it at all. Creating a game is just something I've always wanted to do.
This blog exists to share the thought process on HotDC as well as any thoughts I might have about the world of the RPG in general. If anybody is ready so far, I hope you have enjoyed what I've written so far.
My next post will be about Brannigan The Warrior, one of the original Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl and will offer some insights into the rules of the game.
I am considering creating a game over at Role Play Online for HotDC. If this happens, the link will be in the links section here.
As a note on HotDC, I intend to post more about game mechanics in the future. This means things about the basic rules of this game will become available. The reason I will do this is to share more about the thought process of this game. It also means secrets to the game will be shared. I've thought about that, but really, if somebody wants any of this stuff that badly, then I suppose nothing will stop them from taking it.
I ask that you do not take any content specific to this game without permission. Many hours have already gone into making this a unique game, and many more will follow. Rules explained here will probably change, as they already have. HotDC will be available for sale when it's done, but I don't expect to get rich or make that much money on it at all. Creating a game is just something I've always wanted to do.
This blog exists to share the thought process on HotDC as well as any thoughts I might have about the world of the RPG in general. If anybody is ready so far, I hope you have enjoyed what I've written so far.
My next post will be about Brannigan The Warrior, one of the original Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl and will offer some insights into the rules of the game.
Pictures From The HotDC Notebook
Just a quick note to say that I have snapped several pictures from the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl notebook. The original notebook, which I found on one of my walks, is beat up and in rough shape. If I can figure out how to post some of them, I will do so. It will be a glimpse into the process, and perhaps I can explain why it was I did this or that with the ever evolving rules. I have had moments of doubt on this project, but it will continue. I can't guarantee that September time frame will still happen, but we'll take it as it comes.
Monday, May 28, 2007
The Bandage Option
In Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl, there will be a Bandage Option for characters who go lower than 0 Life Points. This is another area in which I have broken away from the old red book, and it's something I think needed to happen. In the old days, character death was common. It wasn't too much of a problem then, and it wouldn't be in HotDC, simply because creating another Game Character is simple.
But, I want the option to be there to bandage a badly wounded character. As of now, you won't need a special skill to do it. You simply purchase a bandage kit, and it's assumed you know how to use it. Simply bandage the wounded party, and that will stabalize them back to 0 Life Points. As of now, I'm favoring the complete rest for one whole day to get to 1 Life Point, or you can use a healing Incantation or potion.
Starting a new character is always an option and one that will be used often I suppose, but there are reasons a person may want to go the bandage route if they can. I also favor keeping this an optional rule as some Hero Guides may want a death to be a death in this instance.
But, I want the option to be there to bandage a badly wounded character. As of now, you won't need a special skill to do it. You simply purchase a bandage kit, and it's assumed you know how to use it. Simply bandage the wounded party, and that will stabalize them back to 0 Life Points. As of now, I'm favoring the complete rest for one whole day to get to 1 Life Point, or you can use a healing Incantation or potion.
Starting a new character is always an option and one that will be used often I suppose, but there are reasons a person may want to go the bandage route if they can. I also favor keeping this an optional rule as some Hero Guides may want a death to be a death in this instance.
Thursday, May 24, 2007
Gary Gygax On Bringing Newcomers To RPG's
Saw this post by Gary Gygax over at Enworld. Since it deals with the subject matter that this blog is all about, I wanted to share it.
Gary's Post:
The only effective means of actually bringing significant numbers of new participants to the RPG hobby is by an extensive campaign of advertising a simple starter RPG at a reasonable price.
Anything else is basically fighting over existing perticipants, and old-timers teaching their children to game.
My Comments:
This is why Gary is the man when it comes to RPG's. Well, there are several reasons, but the whole notion of a Basic Game to teach newcomers comes from him. I posted not that long ago that Troll Lord Games, makers of the Castles & Crusades game, are doing a Basic Game that is said to be in the style of the old Red Box game. Also, Gary has done quite a bit of work for the Troll Lords.
Work on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl will continue. That test session may happen soon, I hope.
Gary's Post:
The only effective means of actually bringing significant numbers of new participants to the RPG hobby is by an extensive campaign of advertising a simple starter RPG at a reasonable price.
Anything else is basically fighting over existing perticipants, and old-timers teaching their children to game.
My Comments:
This is why Gary is the man when it comes to RPG's. Well, there are several reasons, but the whole notion of a Basic Game to teach newcomers comes from him. I posted not that long ago that Troll Lord Games, makers of the Castles & Crusades game, are doing a Basic Game that is said to be in the style of the old Red Box game. Also, Gary has done quite a bit of work for the Troll Lords.
Work on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl will continue. That test session may happen soon, I hope.
Monday, May 21, 2007
More Progress On The Book
When I found myself stumped recently, I changed tactics. You see, I got tired of staring at the screen and trying to create and opted for the pen and paper. I wrote basic descriptions of Warriors, Mages, Priests and Rogues and the Dwarven race. The whole "What do you write" subject kept blocking my mind, but I reminded myself I wanted to go basic. Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl is, after all, a basic game.
You could write a book on Dwarves, and this has happened in more advanced games. I'm trying for the simple, let's get gaming approach, so a few paragraphs was sufficient. I need to write descriptions for Elves and Halflings, and I will probably keep with the write and then type format. This will become more important as I get into Incantations and Creatures. Now, there won't be anything revolutionary here, but it will serve it's purpose.
As I said, in HotDC, any race can choose any profession, but there will be no multi profession characters. I will stick with the four races and four professions for now, but I may be adding the Felinoid and Half-Dragon races as options later. For now, though, I just want to keep it simple. I'm liking what I have written and typed so far, but I'm moving a little slower than I'd like on the project. At least I got something typed today.
You could write a book on Dwarves, and this has happened in more advanced games. I'm trying for the simple, let's get gaming approach, so a few paragraphs was sufficient. I need to write descriptions for Elves and Halflings, and I will probably keep with the write and then type format. This will become more important as I get into Incantations and Creatures. Now, there won't be anything revolutionary here, but it will serve it's purpose.
As I said, in HotDC, any race can choose any profession, but there will be no multi profession characters. I will stick with the four races and four professions for now, but I may be adding the Felinoid and Half-Dragon races as options later. For now, though, I just want to keep it simple. I'm liking what I have written and typed so far, but I'm moving a little slower than I'd like on the project. At least I got something typed today.
Sunday, May 20, 2007
My Opinions And An RPG Documentary By Dave Arneson
From time to time I will express an opinion here. As people start to read things here (Not sure that's happened yet), I just want to make a few things clear.
1-I am a fan of the basic style of RPG (obviously), but I totally respect the genre and understand why it is what it is as far as complexity and all the books. It needs to be that way. I'm just glad there seems to be a basic movement of late as that is needed as well. Furthermore, I have observed a few D&D 3.5 sessions at my local game store, and it looked like fun to me. I may post my observations at some point. When I find a beginner game nearby, I would like to join in on the fun.
2-I respect Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson for what they've done for RPG gaming. If Dave discovered it and nurtured it in the beginning, Gary cultivated it and (with his team at TSR) took it to heights nobody dreamed of. If I offer any opinions on things from the past, I hope that it's remembered that I respect them both.
3-Well, there is no 3 I can think of. I intend to keep working on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl.
As for the Documentary, a few years ago, Dave Arneson offered a screening at GenCon of his Documentary about the early days of the RPG called, Dragons In The Basement. Recently at The Wayfarer's Inn, Greg Svenson from Dave's early Blackmoor days posted this:
"Dave Arneson and I are at Recon 07 (a mostly historical gaming con in Orlando) right now. I asked him about Dragons in the Basement at dinner last night. He said it is sitting in a box under a table in his living room and still needs some editing. He indicated that Zeitgeist Games may sell copies of it through their on-line store in the not too distant future."
All I can say is I look forward to this as I'm sure others do.
1-I am a fan of the basic style of RPG (obviously), but I totally respect the genre and understand why it is what it is as far as complexity and all the books. It needs to be that way. I'm just glad there seems to be a basic movement of late as that is needed as well. Furthermore, I have observed a few D&D 3.5 sessions at my local game store, and it looked like fun to me. I may post my observations at some point. When I find a beginner game nearby, I would like to join in on the fun.
2-I respect Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson for what they've done for RPG gaming. If Dave discovered it and nurtured it in the beginning, Gary cultivated it and (with his team at TSR) took it to heights nobody dreamed of. If I offer any opinions on things from the past, I hope that it's remembered that I respect them both.
3-Well, there is no 3 I can think of. I intend to keep working on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl.
As for the Documentary, a few years ago, Dave Arneson offered a screening at GenCon of his Documentary about the early days of the RPG called, Dragons In The Basement. Recently at The Wayfarer's Inn, Greg Svenson from Dave's early Blackmoor days posted this:
"Dave Arneson and I are at Recon 07 (a mostly historical gaming con in Orlando) right now. I asked him about Dragons in the Basement at dinner last night. He said it is sitting in a box under a table in his living room and still needs some editing. He indicated that Zeitgeist Games may sell copies of it through their on-line store in the not too distant future."
All I can say is I look forward to this as I'm sure others do.
Saturday, May 19, 2007
OSRIC In Dungeon Magazine, HotDC Stays The Course
Been reading these past few days on the forums about how the guys at OSRIC got a mention in Dragon Magazine. There has been some debate over legality over what these guys are doing. They have essentially created a document they claim makes it legal to print old school (That's 1st Edition AD&D style) Adventure Modules for sale. Not gonna get into legalities here. You can find that on certain forums if you look. The OSRIC page is linked here as I like this project. Though I'm uncertain what they can do legally, I admire them for trying.
From what I've read, by the way, the revision of OSRIC will be ready soon. While a free pdf dowbload will still be available, people will be able to purchase a hard copy if they want. The guys are moving ahead with things, and there are lots of mods available for purchase that work with OSRIC.
Anyway, Dragon Magazine's June edition has a mention of OSRIC and some mods as well, and it's said to be favorable. This is a bit of a surprise, but it's good news to the OSRIC people. Does this mean the project is safe from lawsuit? Some may think so, but it may be too low on Wizards' radar at the moment.
I stopped by my local game store today, and the owner had this to say, "Sounds like a good way to get hit with a lawsuit."
Granted, he didn't seem to know about this project when I told him and likely hasn't read anything on the subject.
Goblinoid Games has created mods for OSRIC and are working on Labyrinth Lord, which is set for release in the next month or so. LL will follow the same principles as OSRIC, while creating the vibe of that old school basic game (Basic D&D).
Now, I had thought about going where LL is going, and I had to think about this. In the past, I have halted two writing projects because they were based on other people's IP. I knew they could never be published, so why bother? Though I work on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl and will continue to do so, I am cheering for LL. I wish them luck. RPG Gaming needs this one, in my opinion.
I had to think long and hard about what I wanted from HotDC. In the end, I decided to go a different route to make my own game. It will have familliar elements to it, but I see nothing on the market like it. It will be a six sided dice system. I ditched the Armor Level System for
the Attack-Defense System. That is something I continue to tweak. I'm staying with three attributes with an option for two more. Many terms are being created for HotDC, such as Degrees, Life Points, Adventure Points and others.
In the long run, this will be better for HotDC. The game will be customizable with several options being presented. However, it will not be at all difficult to grasp these rules and move right into playing. That's why I call it Basic HotDC. There are no plans for an Advanced HotDC.
Oh, a while back, I commented on changing the name. I have a list of a half dozen or so names, one that I'm really liking. Not saying anything now though as I've made no official decision.
From what I've read, by the way, the revision of OSRIC will be ready soon. While a free pdf dowbload will still be available, people will be able to purchase a hard copy if they want. The guys are moving ahead with things, and there are lots of mods available for purchase that work with OSRIC.
Anyway, Dragon Magazine's June edition has a mention of OSRIC and some mods as well, and it's said to be favorable. This is a bit of a surprise, but it's good news to the OSRIC people. Does this mean the project is safe from lawsuit? Some may think so, but it may be too low on Wizards' radar at the moment.
I stopped by my local game store today, and the owner had this to say, "Sounds like a good way to get hit with a lawsuit."
Granted, he didn't seem to know about this project when I told him and likely hasn't read anything on the subject.
Goblinoid Games has created mods for OSRIC and are working on Labyrinth Lord, which is set for release in the next month or so. LL will follow the same principles as OSRIC, while creating the vibe of that old school basic game (Basic D&D).
Now, I had thought about going where LL is going, and I had to think about this. In the past, I have halted two writing projects because they were based on other people's IP. I knew they could never be published, so why bother? Though I work on Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl and will continue to do so, I am cheering for LL. I wish them luck. RPG Gaming needs this one, in my opinion.
I had to think long and hard about what I wanted from HotDC. In the end, I decided to go a different route to make my own game. It will have familliar elements to it, but I see nothing on the market like it. It will be a six sided dice system. I ditched the Armor Level System for
the Attack-Defense System. That is something I continue to tweak. I'm staying with three attributes with an option for two more. Many terms are being created for HotDC, such as Degrees, Life Points, Adventure Points and others.
In the long run, this will be better for HotDC. The game will be customizable with several options being presented. However, it will not be at all difficult to grasp these rules and move right into playing. That's why I call it Basic HotDC. There are no plans for an Advanced HotDC.
Oh, a while back, I commented on changing the name. I have a list of a half dozen or so names, one that I'm really liking. Not saying anything now though as I've made no official decision.
Friday, May 18, 2007
New Links
I added Screen Monkey and Role Play Online links to the links section. At some point, I'd be intersted in testing HotDC online with others, and these two pages offer places to do it. I'd kind of like to play a little Basic D&D as well, perhaps testing Labyrinth Lord when it comes out.
Work on the Rule Book of HotDC is coming along slowly, too slow in fact. Need to find the time to get more done. The mechanics are in place for a test, and that could happen in the not too distant future. But the book is a long way from being finished.
Work on the Rule Book of HotDC is coming along slowly, too slow in fact. Need to find the time to get more done. The mechanics are in place for a test, and that could happen in the not too distant future. But the book is a long way from being finished.
Who Created What
I've toyed with an idea to write some blogs with the old what if question. Most of these questions center around D&D, and I'll list a few.
1-What if Dave Arneson had the money to be an investor in TSR?
2-What if Don Kaye had lived?
3-What if Gary Gygax had managed to gain control of TSR in 1985 and could afford to buy out the others?
There are others, but those three are big enough. The potential change in the RPG community all three scenarios could have created is great. But lately, another question has been on my mind. Who created what?
Dave Arneson seems to be the fogotten man in the anals of RPG history. During this decade, as the Wizards were rolling out D&D 3.0, Dave seems to have received the credit some people feel he deserved. Dave was credited in the D&D 3.0 books as a creator of the game along with Gary Gygax. In the 70's and 80's, some of that was blurred. I want to be clear that some of what I say here is my opinion, and some facts may be off. I'm remembering things I've read Gary or Dave say, and it may be off a bit. That both men are creators of original D&D is a fact.
There does seem to be ill feelings even now, 30+ years later. And, D&D isn't owned by either man at this point and never was owned by Dave. Gary has remained in the public eye, posting on forums. He is quite popular with many old AD&D fans on several forums. Dave doesn't post much, but when 3.0 was unveiled, he did some interviews helping hype the product and was part of the first D&D movie project. Interestingly enough, during that time, Dave proclaimed himself the father of role playing games. That comment seemed to bug Gary, but I think he needs to get over it.
Blackmoor was the first RPG and campaign setting, and Dave invented that. Gary has said role playing began with kids playing "lets pretend" and that is true. But, the RPG game as we know it started with Dave. I find it interesting that Gary has told a story, I believe in a D&D documentary on utube, about playing a cops & robbers game as a kid in which a friend acted as a sort of DM by keeping records. While I don't dispute this, I wonder if Gary told this tale prior to Dave's proclaimation of being the father of RPG gaming.
It does seem to me that people tend to get upset when Dave or somebody from his camp just points out Dave's side of RPG history. Why? The other side had every opportunity to shape gaming history. During that time, Dave's role in RPG history has been diminished. Just read articles in Dragon Magazine or check the web. I'm not suggesting for a minute that Gary doesn't deserve the credit he's gotten. There would be no AD&D without him, or D&D for that matter. The man knows gaming. But Dave knows a thing or two as well. What Dave seems to have lacked back then is the writing ability Gary had.
So let's look at some of the history. This has been taken from various comments from Gary, Dave, web history pages and Dragon Magazine articles.
Dave and Gary actually collaberate on a game called Don't Give Up The Ship.
The Chain Mail Miniatures game came out.
Dave played Chain Mail and at some point abandoned the game for his new game, Blackmoor. Dave created several features for the game that became D&D, such as Armor Class, Hit Points and Levels. The game was thriving, and at some point, Dave invited Gary to sit in on the game. Gary was impressed. Dave lent Gary his notes to begin writing the rules for D&D. I understand it was Gary's daughter who came up with Dungeons & Dragons as the name of the game.
Recently, some of Dave's old Blackmoor players, from a time before D&D even existed, have posted over at The Wayfarer's Inn and The Blackmoor Forum at Zeitigest's (sp) Games. Some fascinating stuff here. They have commented that the mechanics from the Blackmoor game and D&D (1st Edition) were essentially the same.
I have read Gary comments in how he wrote the D&D rules. In a Dragon Magazine article, he commented how Dave was credited as a writer of original D&D because of his idea "kernals".
In Tim Kask's thread on Dragonsfoot, Gary posted this:
"Dave Arneson did not write one word of the D&D game as he stated in his interview printed in Different Worlds #3. "
The picture I'm starting to see is that Gary did write that rule book. This is true. But, in my opinion based on what I've read so far, the game existed before the book. Dave created the game. The note book he loaned Gary was probably not the most organized, but the rules were there. Gary saw the game in action. Like Dave, Gary knew this game was a winner. Gary could write and he explained the rules Dave created, added things here and there, and finally named it D&D. Furthermore, Gary and friends invested in the idea, and the rest is history. Dave never invested. I believe I've read he didn't have the money. This begs at least one question about cutting a co creator in on at least a smaller piece of the action, but I won't go there.
It seems to me the debate is over the details. Dave played Blackmoor, created it even. The rule book was a notebook of rules created on the fly. Gary polished it and added a few details. Basically, his descriptions of the rules made it fly. History goes on to record that new D&D gamers, calling at all hours of the night and early morning, prompted Gary to write a more detailed and more rules intensive book(s) that became AD&D (1st Edition).
My opinion doesn't mean squat. It's 30+ years down the road. I respect both men actually. But, until I see better proof to the contrary, it was Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax who created that first version of D&D. Years later, I'm happy to see that Gary is busy with Lejendary Adventures and Castles & Crusaders, while Dave's busy with Blackmoor. I probably wouldn't be writing anything on this blog if not for both of them.
1-What if Dave Arneson had the money to be an investor in TSR?
2-What if Don Kaye had lived?
3-What if Gary Gygax had managed to gain control of TSR in 1985 and could afford to buy out the others?
There are others, but those three are big enough. The potential change in the RPG community all three scenarios could have created is great. But lately, another question has been on my mind. Who created what?
Dave Arneson seems to be the fogotten man in the anals of RPG history. During this decade, as the Wizards were rolling out D&D 3.0, Dave seems to have received the credit some people feel he deserved. Dave was credited in the D&D 3.0 books as a creator of the game along with Gary Gygax. In the 70's and 80's, some of that was blurred. I want to be clear that some of what I say here is my opinion, and some facts may be off. I'm remembering things I've read Gary or Dave say, and it may be off a bit. That both men are creators of original D&D is a fact.
There does seem to be ill feelings even now, 30+ years later. And, D&D isn't owned by either man at this point and never was owned by Dave. Gary has remained in the public eye, posting on forums. He is quite popular with many old AD&D fans on several forums. Dave doesn't post much, but when 3.0 was unveiled, he did some interviews helping hype the product and was part of the first D&D movie project. Interestingly enough, during that time, Dave proclaimed himself the father of role playing games. That comment seemed to bug Gary, but I think he needs to get over it.
Blackmoor was the first RPG and campaign setting, and Dave invented that. Gary has said role playing began with kids playing "lets pretend" and that is true. But, the RPG game as we know it started with Dave. I find it interesting that Gary has told a story, I believe in a D&D documentary on utube, about playing a cops & robbers game as a kid in which a friend acted as a sort of DM by keeping records. While I don't dispute this, I wonder if Gary told this tale prior to Dave's proclaimation of being the father of RPG gaming.
It does seem to me that people tend to get upset when Dave or somebody from his camp just points out Dave's side of RPG history. Why? The other side had every opportunity to shape gaming history. During that time, Dave's role in RPG history has been diminished. Just read articles in Dragon Magazine or check the web. I'm not suggesting for a minute that Gary doesn't deserve the credit he's gotten. There would be no AD&D without him, or D&D for that matter. The man knows gaming. But Dave knows a thing or two as well. What Dave seems to have lacked back then is the writing ability Gary had.
So let's look at some of the history. This has been taken from various comments from Gary, Dave, web history pages and Dragon Magazine articles.
Dave and Gary actually collaberate on a game called Don't Give Up The Ship.
The Chain Mail Miniatures game came out.
Dave played Chain Mail and at some point abandoned the game for his new game, Blackmoor. Dave created several features for the game that became D&D, such as Armor Class, Hit Points and Levels. The game was thriving, and at some point, Dave invited Gary to sit in on the game. Gary was impressed. Dave lent Gary his notes to begin writing the rules for D&D. I understand it was Gary's daughter who came up with Dungeons & Dragons as the name of the game.
Recently, some of Dave's old Blackmoor players, from a time before D&D even existed, have posted over at The Wayfarer's Inn and The Blackmoor Forum at Zeitigest's (sp) Games. Some fascinating stuff here. They have commented that the mechanics from the Blackmoor game and D&D (1st Edition) were essentially the same.
I have read Gary comments in how he wrote the D&D rules. In a Dragon Magazine article, he commented how Dave was credited as a writer of original D&D because of his idea "kernals".
In Tim Kask's thread on Dragonsfoot, Gary posted this:
"Dave Arneson did not write one word of the D&D game as he stated in his interview printed in Different Worlds #3. "
The picture I'm starting to see is that Gary did write that rule book. This is true. But, in my opinion based on what I've read so far, the game existed before the book. Dave created the game. The note book he loaned Gary was probably not the most organized, but the rules were there. Gary saw the game in action. Like Dave, Gary knew this game was a winner. Gary could write and he explained the rules Dave created, added things here and there, and finally named it D&D. Furthermore, Gary and friends invested in the idea, and the rest is history. Dave never invested. I believe I've read he didn't have the money. This begs at least one question about cutting a co creator in on at least a smaller piece of the action, but I won't go there.
It seems to me the debate is over the details. Dave played Blackmoor, created it even. The rule book was a notebook of rules created on the fly. Gary polished it and added a few details. Basically, his descriptions of the rules made it fly. History goes on to record that new D&D gamers, calling at all hours of the night and early morning, prompted Gary to write a more detailed and more rules intensive book(s) that became AD&D (1st Edition).
My opinion doesn't mean squat. It's 30+ years down the road. I respect both men actually. But, until I see better proof to the contrary, it was Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax who created that first version of D&D. Years later, I'm happy to see that Gary is busy with Lejendary Adventures and Castles & Crusaders, while Dave's busy with Blackmoor. I probably wouldn't be writing anything on this blog if not for both of them.
Monday, May 14, 2007
The Secret City Of Modayvia
I have already posted about the first Adventure I intend to do for Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl, based on my brother's first dungeon that was called If In Doubt, Seek It Out. I have the map from that Dungeon, but not the info on what was inside. I do recall some of it, and the general plot line will resemble some of that. It will involve a plot to animate the dead into a Living Dead army. The map my brother did will only be one level of what will probably be at least four.
There will be an Adventure Campaign Setting map based on Three Kings Island. Possibly a map of the neighboring island, The Malzeenes Island. The latter island was the first campaign setting my brother did. Don't have the original of that, but I have a replica. Three Kings Island will be the main setting at this point, and that map may appear in the HotDC Basic Rulebook.
The If In Doubt Adventure, which will probably get a new name, is tentatively set to be the first Adventure for HotDC, though it may be the second if I do a 0 Degree lead in Adventure. However, I am toying with the idea of putting The Secret City Of Moldayvia underneath the If In Doubt dungeon.
This is all just ideas at this point, but the Secret City will have a few secrets of it's own. A group that runs things from the shadows, whose reach goes all the way to the surface of Three Kings Island. The people of this city are under the impression that the world above has been destroyed and is unsafe. Well, that's a few tidbits for now. Just part of the thought process.
There will be an Adventure Campaign Setting map based on Three Kings Island. Possibly a map of the neighboring island, The Malzeenes Island. The latter island was the first campaign setting my brother did. Don't have the original of that, but I have a replica. Three Kings Island will be the main setting at this point, and that map may appear in the HotDC Basic Rulebook.
The If In Doubt Adventure, which will probably get a new name, is tentatively set to be the first Adventure for HotDC, though it may be the second if I do a 0 Degree lead in Adventure. However, I am toying with the idea of putting The Secret City Of Moldayvia underneath the If In Doubt dungeon.
This is all just ideas at this point, but the Secret City will have a few secrets of it's own. A group that runs things from the shadows, whose reach goes all the way to the surface of Three Kings Island. The people of this city are under the impression that the world above has been destroyed and is unsafe. Well, that's a few tidbits for now. Just part of the thought process.
Thursday, May 10, 2007
Writing Continues
I have recently started hand writing parts of Section 2 of the HotDC Rulebook on Character Creation. I find it easier to think and write than to stare at the screen and think lately, so I'm going with it. With the other projects I mention in my previous post, I have decided I'd better keep working on this deal.
As I think I mentioned in the past, one of the ways I broke ranks with the old game is by allowing all four races in HotDC to choose their own profession. In the old game, an Elf was an Elf, a Dwarf was a Dwarf and a Halfling was a Halfling, but only a Human could be whatever class they wanted to be. I understand one reason for this was to make it easier to start playing, but I don't think this adjustment will hurt that. Plus, I'm not recreating the old game anymore, so much as trying to create something simple and easy to get into for newcomers.
Now, the four races in HotDC (There still may be a fifth race called Felinoid or even more) can chose to be a Warrior, Priest(ess), Mage and Rogue, but there is no multi classing in HotDC. I want to keep it simple. I could slip another class choice in there at some point, but it's not on my mind at the moment.
As I think I mentioned in the past, one of the ways I broke ranks with the old game is by allowing all four races in HotDC to choose their own profession. In the old game, an Elf was an Elf, a Dwarf was a Dwarf and a Halfling was a Halfling, but only a Human could be whatever class they wanted to be. I understand one reason for this was to make it easier to start playing, but I don't think this adjustment will hurt that. Plus, I'm not recreating the old game anymore, so much as trying to create something simple and easy to get into for newcomers.
Now, the four races in HotDC (There still may be a fifth race called Felinoid or even more) can chose to be a Warrior, Priest(ess), Mage and Rogue, but there is no multi classing in HotDC. I want to keep it simple. I could slip another class choice in there at some point, but it's not on my mind at the moment.
When Goblins Attack
It can get very tough for low degree characters in Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl if you face too many Goblins at once. But another group of Goblins has plans in the world of the rpg game. Well, their company is called Goblinoid Games actually, and they have already jumped into the world of old school rpg's by making Adventures for those who have OSRIC. But Goblinoid Games has embarked on another quest, to bring the old basic style game back. It is basically what OSRIC is to AD&D, and it's called Labyrinth Lord. From what I understand, if you played the old Mentzer/Cook Basic/Expert D&D game, this game will feel familliar.
I personally think it's great news. What it means to HotDC, I will discuss further down in this post. However, there is a concern from fans of the Basic Fantasy game that LL will take away from their effort. I don't agree with that. When they made BF, they made a decision to change some of the rules in the game to current D&D trends. I understand why it was done, and the game still looks like it plays similar to the old game. However, Goblinoid Games has said they plan to keep LL as faithful as possible to the old game.
Many of us want what Goblinoid Games proposes. I am concerned that the BF fans might attack the idea of LL, and I hope that BF's creator would make a statement of respect for the other effort if nothing else. Much of this is being discussed over at Dragonsfoot. There was a thread there about an OSRIC for the old basic game that I even posted in, but BF's creator seemed a bit touchy about certain comments. This caused me to reconsider posting an announcement about HotDC over there until this project is nearly complete.
When I was covering auto racing in my area, personal attacks happened quite a bit towards the end of my run, and I don't desire to get in the middle of that while working on HotDC. It tends to take away from the joy of working on it.
Let me say now that I support Basic Fantasy, which is why it's linked here, and I also support Labyrinth Lord and will link it as well. If it turns out to be what I think it will, I may do a Dungeon Adventure for it. That style of game is really what I want to see.
Now, when I opened up this blog a couple months ago and started sharing the thought process of HotDC, I didn't see many people out there who gave a damn about people like me who wanted something simple. Since then, here's what I've found:
Basic Fantasy does a nice job of creating that old feel.
Labyrinth Lord appears to be a game that will recreate that old feel a little more faithfully.
Troll Lord Games is making the Basic C&C game.
Goodman Games is making what appears to be a basic game called Dungeoneer.
What does any of this have to do with HotDC? Well, it just let's you know that the concern for a basic rpg game that doesn't bog you down with books is becoming a concern for some in the industry.
I've even heard rumors that D&D may finally address this issue when they release the inevitable 4.0 rules.
But, none of this is stopping the process of creating HotDC. Work continues on the project. Sometimes it goes slower than I'd like, but that's the way it goes.
Oh, and welcome to the basic game party Goblinoid Games. I have a feeling there will plenty of interest in Labyrinth Lord.
I personally think it's great news. What it means to HotDC, I will discuss further down in this post. However, there is a concern from fans of the Basic Fantasy game that LL will take away from their effort. I don't agree with that. When they made BF, they made a decision to change some of the rules in the game to current D&D trends. I understand why it was done, and the game still looks like it plays similar to the old game. However, Goblinoid Games has said they plan to keep LL as faithful as possible to the old game.
Many of us want what Goblinoid Games proposes. I am concerned that the BF fans might attack the idea of LL, and I hope that BF's creator would make a statement of respect for the other effort if nothing else. Much of this is being discussed over at Dragonsfoot. There was a thread there about an OSRIC for the old basic game that I even posted in, but BF's creator seemed a bit touchy about certain comments. This caused me to reconsider posting an announcement about HotDC over there until this project is nearly complete.
When I was covering auto racing in my area, personal attacks happened quite a bit towards the end of my run, and I don't desire to get in the middle of that while working on HotDC. It tends to take away from the joy of working on it.
Let me say now that I support Basic Fantasy, which is why it's linked here, and I also support Labyrinth Lord and will link it as well. If it turns out to be what I think it will, I may do a Dungeon Adventure for it. That style of game is really what I want to see.
Now, when I opened up this blog a couple months ago and started sharing the thought process of HotDC, I didn't see many people out there who gave a damn about people like me who wanted something simple. Since then, here's what I've found:
Basic Fantasy does a nice job of creating that old feel.
Labyrinth Lord appears to be a game that will recreate that old feel a little more faithfully.
Troll Lord Games is making the Basic C&C game.
Goodman Games is making what appears to be a basic game called Dungeoneer.
What does any of this have to do with HotDC? Well, it just let's you know that the concern for a basic rpg game that doesn't bog you down with books is becoming a concern for some in the industry.
I've even heard rumors that D&D may finally address this issue when they release the inevitable 4.0 rules.
But, none of this is stopping the process of creating HotDC. Work continues on the project. Sometimes it goes slower than I'd like, but that's the way it goes.
Oh, and welcome to the basic game party Goblinoid Games. I have a feeling there will plenty of interest in Labyrinth Lord.
Sunday, May 6, 2007
Let A Dwarf Be A Dwarf
I had toyed with changing names of Dwarves, Elves and Halflings, but at this moment I will be leaving them as is in HotDC. I'm being very careful to try to steer clear of things that may be other's IP. There are certain creatures, for instance, that won't be among the 99 or so listed in the rule book for Basic Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl. Serveral terms used in HotDC will be different than the better known ones for that very reason, but I just want a Dwarf to be a Dwarf. Dwarves exist in several RPG's, so I'm leaving them in.
Though Section 2 of the book is still in progress, I've been using that beat up old note book to jot down several notes and charts. I want to get another test session going for HotDC soon. Will it be too lethal or not tough enough? I gotta know. I want to put the Attack-Defense System through it's paces. The last session I tested used the Armor Level System (Similar to the Armor Class System of the old red book), but I wanted to go different.
I have added a new species of Dragons known as Demi Dragons. These critters are still big, but small compared to the bigger variety many GC's have come to know and fear. They won't pack the same punch, but they can still take out a party and they are being designed with new GC's in mind rather than higher Degree GC's. There will be risk, yet rewards for battling these creatures.
I have some other ceatures from the old Pro Set and Book Of Options that I wrote back in my old red book gaming days, and some of these may make it into the Basic HotDC rule book. The beauty of HotDC is that the Hero Guide can easily adjust any creature to be a challenge for a GC of any Degree. Think Goblins are just a pushover? Think again. This will all be explained in the book.
We'll have charts for random treasures, creatures and that sort of thing. In fact, I have a rough draft of the treasure chart done and a chart for 0 and 1st Degree Creatures already. Magic Incantation charts have been written. I'm working on movement charts and equipment charts. Though some work is getting done, it still feels like it's taking forever. I'm realizing how big a project I have taken on, but I think I can do okay with it.
Though Section 2 of the book is still in progress, I've been using that beat up old note book to jot down several notes and charts. I want to get another test session going for HotDC soon. Will it be too lethal or not tough enough? I gotta know. I want to put the Attack-Defense System through it's paces. The last session I tested used the Armor Level System (Similar to the Armor Class System of the old red book), but I wanted to go different.
I have added a new species of Dragons known as Demi Dragons. These critters are still big, but small compared to the bigger variety many GC's have come to know and fear. They won't pack the same punch, but they can still take out a party and they are being designed with new GC's in mind rather than higher Degree GC's. There will be risk, yet rewards for battling these creatures.
I have some other ceatures from the old Pro Set and Book Of Options that I wrote back in my old red book gaming days, and some of these may make it into the Basic HotDC rule book. The beauty of HotDC is that the Hero Guide can easily adjust any creature to be a challenge for a GC of any Degree. Think Goblins are just a pushover? Think again. This will all be explained in the book.
We'll have charts for random treasures, creatures and that sort of thing. In fact, I have a rough draft of the treasure chart done and a chart for 0 and 1st Degree Creatures already. Magic Incantation charts have been written. I'm working on movement charts and equipment charts. Though some work is getting done, it still feels like it's taking forever. I'm realizing how big a project I have taken on, but I think I can do okay with it.
Wednesday, May 2, 2007
A New Dragon In HotDC And Other Stuff
Just a quick update to mention that I have been working on things. I've actually done a little typing on Part 2 of the Heroes of the Dungeon Crawl rule book.
I've been tweaking the treasure charts a little bit. The charts, as I will explain, are meant to be a starting point for the new Hero Guide. The HG may even choose to make his own charts for his game and add new treasures. The treasure section of the book will explain the dangers of the Monty Haul campaign. Game balance can be ruined if treasure rewards are too great or not good enough.
Been working on Creatures a little bit and I'm starting the list for 0 Degree Creatures. That second test session will happen some time in the not too distant future. I want to put the Attack-Defense System through it's paces.
One creature I'm working on is a smaller version of a dragon. What I'd like to do is have dragons that lower degree characters can go face to face with and have a fighting chance. But, these Mini Dragons won't be easy. It's a work in progress anyway.
I've been tweaking the treasure charts a little bit. The charts, as I will explain, are meant to be a starting point for the new Hero Guide. The HG may even choose to make his own charts for his game and add new treasures. The treasure section of the book will explain the dangers of the Monty Haul campaign. Game balance can be ruined if treasure rewards are too great or not good enough.
Been working on Creatures a little bit and I'm starting the list for 0 Degree Creatures. That second test session will happen some time in the not too distant future. I want to put the Attack-Defense System through it's paces.
One creature I'm working on is a smaller version of a dragon. What I'd like to do is have dragons that lower degree characters can go face to face with and have a fighting chance. But, these Mini Dragons won't be easy. It's a work in progress anyway.
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